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Seaford & District to cease daytime bus operation

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alex397

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Sadly, it appears Seaford & District are to stop operating main daytime bus routes. Compass Bus have announced they are taking over routes 228/229 (which Seaford took over from Arriva after they abandoned this route a few years ago) and 261 as of 8th January. I believe the 228/9 is commercial, and 261 an East Sussex contract. Seaford have said a replacement operator is being sought for route 125. Route 231 will continue until contract end in March. It is believed the 228/9 will reduce in frequency, and also the 231 as some journeys are commercial.

They are a highly professional company, and when I have sampled some of these routes, i've been impressed with the standard of the vehicles (including a R-reg Volvo/Wright, which felt brand new). This is a bit of a surprise for me, as it seemed they were doing well (perhaps they are doing well, and there are other reasons). But, nothing should surprise me in this increasingly difficult bus industry.

Seaford still operate various school services, the Eastbourne Sightseeing, and operate a lot of private hire, rail replacement, and have a good vintage fleet. I hope they continue having success with their remaining work.

Its good to see Compass Bus expanding though, and this will bring them into Kent for the first time (I think). They already operate over a large area covering East Sussex, West Sussex and Surrey.

It seems in recent years I just hear constantly operators giving up routes, and councils scrambling to try and find a replacement. There are less and less operators meaning less competition in contracts, making it all more expensive. I have heard in some areas where routes are put out to tender, and only one (or none!) operator responding. Such a shame, as there are plenty of decent operators such as Seaford who have given up because of the poor state of our bus industry
 
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Chrisgr31

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The decision by Seaford and District does seem very sudden. It appears that the 228/9 will be taken over by Compass with immediate affect. Part of the problem with the route is that from Crowborough to Tunbridge Wells it competes with the 29service operates by Brighton and Hove which is also cheaper.

Compass are going to operate the 228/9as they are for the moment although it might reduce to a round Crowborough service later in the year. It presents problems for school children going to Tun Wells if they do stop that leg.

Personally I think the 228/9 needs an overall and support. This could be achieved if associated with parking restrictions around the station car parks
 

alex397

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The decision by Seaford and District does seem very sudden. It appears that the 228/9 will be taken over by Compass with immediate affect. Part of the problem with the route is that from Crowborough to Tunbridge Wells it competes with the 29service operates by Brighton and Hove which is also cheaper.

Compass are going to operate the 228/9as they are for the moment although it might reduce to a round Crowborough service later in the year. It presents problems for school children going to Tun Wells if they do stop that leg.

Personally I think the 228/9 needs an overall and support. This could be achieved if associated with parking restrictions around the station car parks

Part of the problem certainly is the Brighton & Hove service - a quality operator, and its half-hourly. Although the benefit of the 228/229 is it gives a direct bus to T.Wells for large parts of Crowborough, and wouldn't be affected by any of the problems a long-distance route such as the 29 suffers from (i.e. delays in Brighton affecting the whole route).

If it does become just a Crowborough local service, my guess would be that there could be peak journeys extending to T.Wells to cater for school children. But that could add to costs if they need to add another bus for that.
 

Hophead

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Just because Seafood & District share the road to Tunbridge Wells doesn't necessarily mean that they are in competition. The timetables are reasonably well aligned. Furthermore, S&D accept some B&H tickets (although the opposite does not seem to apply, from a cursory perusal of the Brighton & Hove no. 29 fare chart).
I think that, fundamentally, Crowborough to Tunbridge Wells simply isn't capable of supporting 3 buses per hour. A last bus from Tunbridge Wells at around 17:30 probably isn't doing the 228 any favours either.
 

Busaholic

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The heading to the thread infers that S&D operate some evening services, presumably under contract. Is this true, or just my misreading? S&D contributed to the pre-Christmas annual Ensignbus running day around Thurrock and Gravesend: not that I was able to be there, just been reading about it/ looking at the photos in Feb edition of 'Bus and Coach Preservation'.
 

SEClass375

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If Compass Bus aren't going to run the school link then I'd personally like Arriva to operate it again. With their new depot with the ability to have more buses opening spring time, I'd like them to follow up on routes that they have cut over the years.
 

alex397

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The heading to the thread infers that S&D operate some evening services, presumably under contract. Is this true, or just my misreading? S&D contributed to the pre-Christmas annual Ensignbus running day around Thurrock and Gravesend: not that I was able to be there, just been reading about it/ looking at the photos in Feb edition of 'Bus and Coach Preservation'.

By daytime services, I meant routes that run throughout the day, as they will still operate peak-hour public bus routes aimed at schools. They have never operated evening services.

If Compass Bus aren't going to run the school link then I'd personally like Arriva to operate it again. With their new depot with the ability to have more buses opening spring time, I'd like them to follow up on routes that they have cut over the years.

Arriva Kent & Surrey don't seem particularly willing to expand their operations. In fact, in recent months they gave up a Kent County Council contract and Nu-Venture took it over at short notice - this was the 58 at Maidstone.
 

alex397

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Worth pointing out that Seaford & District are still registered to operate the 228/229 and 261 until 10th February. Compass Bus will just operate them on behalf of Seaford with the same timetable until that date. After the 10th February, it depends on ESCC tenders who operate these services.

It appears the 228/229 are in fact council routes, but I suspect only the unique part of the route around Crowborough is funded by ESCC, with the extension to T.Wells commercial. 261 is completely council funded, so that timetable is unlikely to change regardless of operator.

Information is a bit confusing!
 

Typhoon

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Worth pointing out that Seaford & District are still registered to operate the 228/229 and 261 until 10th February. Compass Bus will just operate them on behalf of Seaford with the same timetable until that date. After the 10th February, it depends on ESCC tenders who operate these services.


It appears the 228/229 are in fact council routes, but I suspect only the unique part of the route around Crowborough is funded by ESCC, with the extension to T.Wells commercial. 261 is completely council funded, so that timetable is unlikely to change regardless of operator.

Information is a bit confusing!

Are you sure about 261?

https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/media/9126/wealden-district-changes-to-bus-services-july-2017.pdf
seems to indicate that only some of the journeys are subsidised (it could, of course, be wrong - however, I don't think there have been any changes to the service after these notifications in July). It has been subsidised in the past, for instance when it was run by Countryliner; I can't remember whether it was subsidised when Compass took it over previously. I believe that the route escaped relatively unscathed following the 2015 cuts to E Sussex services. The Saturday alternative (262) is run by a community outfit.

Whether Compass can maintain the current service without subsidy remains to be seen!
 

MedwayValiant

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Arriva Kent & Surrey don't seem particularly willing to expand their operations. In fact, in recent months they gave up a Kent County Council contract and Nu-Venture took it over at short notice - this was the 58 at Maidstone.

I'm not sure whether they are unwilling, or more unable. They're struggling to operate their current services at the moment, especially in Medway but apparently in the TW area as well. As far as I know this is mainly because of a shortage of both drivers and vehicles, although the company is refusing to admit this in public and says that there are no problems. Contrast with the problems they had in Stevenage, where they admitted that they didn't have the drivers and couldn't run all the advertised services. Or Harlow, where they went so far as to outsource some of their services to small operators.

Actually, at face value some of the Medway services are currently being operated by Arriva Buses Wales. The buses have adverts in Welsh on the inside and they are not displaying "on hire to ..." legals, so that must be what's happening.
 
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Teflon Lettuce

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Actually, at face value some of the Medway services are currently being operated by Arriva Buses Wales. The buses have adverts in Welsh on the inside and they are not displaying "on hire to ..." legals, so that must be what's happening.
More likely the buses have been transferred... knowing Arriva's slap dash approach to their operations those adverts will probably stay there until such time as Arriva get a contract from someone else to advertise
 

SEClass375

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It turns out that compass bus are operating the school buses with the same buses
 

GatwickDepress

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More likely the buses have been transferred... knowing Arriva's slap dash approach to their operations those adverts will probably stay there until such time as Arriva get a contract from someone else to advertise
Yep, Milton Keynes had some Wright Streetlites transfer from Telford last summer and they ran with Arriva Midlands branding for quite a while.
 

Robertj21a

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Yep, Milton Keynes had some Wright Streetlites transfer from Telford last summer and they ran with Arriva Midlands branding for quite a while.

Not so very surprising really ! - Milton Keynes is treated as a part of Arriva Midlands.
 

alex397

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Are you sure about 261?

https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/media/9126/wealden-district-changes-to-bus-services-july-2017.pdf
seems to indicate that only some of the journeys are subsidised (it could, of course, be wrong - however, I don't think there have been any changes to the service after these notifications in July). It has been subsidised in the past, for instance when it was run by Countryliner; I can't remember whether it was subsidised when Compass took it over previously. I believe that the route escaped relatively unscathed following the 2015 cuts to E Sussex services. The Saturday alternative (262) is run by a community outfit.

Whether Compass can maintain the current service without subsidy remains to be seen!

I didn't think about looking at the East Sussex CC website. That does seem more likely.




Or Harlow, where they went so far as to outsource some of their services to small operators..

Out of interest, what routes at Harlow were outsourced to other operators? I grew up in that area, and still try to keep up to date with happenings there, but hadn't heard of this.[/QUOTE]
 
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Typhoon

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I didn't think about looking at the East Sussex CC website. That does seem more likely.

I was surprised; to me it is a typical subsidised route (if there is such a thing). Hence my concern that Compass may not be able to operate the current timetable commercially. ESCC cut back all subsidised routes dramatically in 2015 (for instance, to run on fewer days).
 

Lynford1976

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All four routes that Seaford & District have given up are now being retendered by East Sussex County Council, not necessarily in the same format as present.

Routes 228/229 and 261 will be subcontracted by S&D to Compass until 10th. February.
 

Hophead

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Copied from the Compass Bus website:

228/229 Crowborough-Jarvis Brook-Eridge-Tunbridge Wells

The current timetable will continue until 30 July, with Compass Travel running the service. This has been arranged by East Sussex County Council and Kent County Council, so as to give more time for service use and revenue to improve in an attempt to avoid the service being reduced.
 
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