Safety Hammers

[Hampshire Unit]

How have SWT managed to remove all there Safety hammers from there 444 and 450 stock? At first I though maybe they had been stolen from the coach I was travelling in but over the last few months they have all vanished and in some cases a grey plastic cover has been used to cover the hole where they once were. Even the notices of how to use them and on what window have been removed? Surely there is a safety case here. Have lessons not been learnt of how useful this are should things go wrong? And why have the HMRI allowed SWT to get away with it ?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I seem to remember an article somewhere in an engineering mag that if the emergency exit windows were replaced with normal ones, then the coach will behave better in an accident by retaining it's tube like shape, and the strength that goes with it. Any broken or missing window would seriously reduce the structural integrity of that tube.

Also, a lot of street lighting is a circular tube with a section removed to allow access to the electrics, and it is at this point that they tend to fail after a number of years (depending on prevailing conditions, ie, seaside location etc)

 

[mumrar]

How have SWT managed to remove all there Safety hammers from there 444 and 450 stock? At first I though maybe they had been stolen from the coach I was travelling in but over the last few months they have all vanished and in some cases a grey plastic cover has been used to cover the hole where they once were. Even the notices of how to use them and on what window have been removed? Surely there is a safety case here. Have lessons not been learnt of how useful this are should things go wrong? And why have the HMRI allowed SWT to get away with it ?

A long time ago this happened with the 323 fleet in the West midlands that I worked on. The problem was that little chavs would steal them, and in some cases perpetuate thefts armed with them either on the train, or outside. It was agreed with HMRI that an adequate supply would be retained in the emergency equipment cupboard. I think you'll find it's more widespread too, where these problems arise

 

[dan_atki]

I too thought they had been removed by vandals until the issue was raised at the SWT online webchat.

The reason for the disappearance comes after a report that found it is safer to remain on the train in the event of an accident and, as such, emergency hammers to break out are not needed.

 

[AlexS]

Ah yes, tell that to the people who burned to death at Ladbroke Grove!

I believe in a lot of cases the removal of the hammers has to do with the location of the doors. If the doors are less than a certain distance away from all points of the coach (ie 1/3 2/3 spacing) then you don't need emergency egress windows as you should in theory be able to use a door instead.

 

[Lee_Again]

Not sure those hammers were of much use anyway. Imagine a train on its side. The window would be at east 10' in the air. And even if you could reach and break it the glass would fall straight on to your head.

Same thing applies to doors. You try pushing one of those open if the train is on its side. The easiest way out will always nearlybe the end corridors.

As an aside, one of the reasons few people died in the pendo crash was that nearly all the windows stayed in situ. Compare that to the Mk4 selby crash where most victims died because they were thrown clear through an open/broken window or were severly cut by broken glass.

The railways have realised that the safest thing to do in an accident is for people to be restrained and for the glass not to break. Those hammers would never break a pendo window. Might crack it or severly damage it but never shatter it out.

How long until seat belts are required?

 

[mathmo]

How long until seat belts are required?

Forever, hopefully. No-one would wear them, they'd be absolutely no good for anyone standing, and the number of railway accidents is so low the cost would be prohibitive. That's my view anyway - it would be a total overreaction!

 

[Crossover]

Forever, hopefully. No-one would wear them, they'd be absolutely no good for anyone standing, and the number of railway accidents is so low the cost would be prohibitive. That's my view anyway - it would be a total overreaction!

It wouldn't work, besides, theres too many ways a train can crash that they would potentially do more harm than good, especially if not worn right

 

[O L Leigh]

Seat belts on trains are a total over-reaction. In the five years since the Potters Bar accident there has been just one death on-board a train, and that was at Grayrigg.

Click for source.

O L Leigh

 

[thelem]

Seat belts on trains are a total over-reaction. In the five years since the Potters Bar accident there has been just one death on-board a train, and that was at Grayrigg.

Click for source.

O L Leigh

Yeah, but there have only been 7,000 or so car occupants die in the same period, and they have to wear seat belts! :P

source. (I didn't count the pedestrians, but I'm not sure what good a seat belt would do them).

 

[Aussie_Rail]

The never had those hammers on trains or trams here as far as I can remember, I only ever see them on buses. In an emergency I guess they expect you to leave through the door.

If they did have them, then no doubt chavs would use them to break the window and anything else they can hit with them.

 

[merlodlliw]

reminds me of the trains that ran in the late 50s and early 60s(steam) in the
sections near the doors, an axe was part of the emergency eqpt along with
a sledgehammer and a pair of steps. The guards van also had these tools.
I do refer to the old 1155 Man exchange to Llandudno/Holyhead and the 1630 Manchester exchange to LLandudno club train,plus the 2230 Man Ex to
Holyhead, I used all these trains when I worked in Manchester as a youth
travelling from/to Rhyl. No body ever seemed to interfere with them then.

Imagine an axe in the train now. BTY Aussie, hows the Camel train doing,now
its cross continent, (Ghan?) friend of mine bought a ticket on my chats about
world travel with him, he passed away just prior to spending a holiday in Aus,
the previous year he did Sth America by rail(well part of it), poor chap knew
his health/time was limited.

 

[O L Leigh]

Yeah, but there have only been 7,000 or so car occupants die in the same period, and they have to wear seat belts! :P

source. (I didn't count the pedestrians, but I'm not sure what good a seat belt would do them).

There are three types of lies. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

What doesn't get recorded are all the motorists whose lives have been saved by wearing a seatbelt. Such a high number of deaths does not prove that seatbelts in cars are a waste of time.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

reminds me of the trains that ran in the late 50s and early 60s(steam) in the
sections near the doors, an axe was part of the emergency eqpt along with
a sledgehammer and a pair of steps. The guards van also had these tools.
I do refer to the old 1155 Man exchange to Llandudno/Holyhead and the 1630 Manchester exchange to LLandudno club train,plus the 2230 Man Ex to
Holyhead, I used all these trains when I worked in Manchester as a youth
travelling from/to Rhyl. No body ever seemed to interfere with them then.

Imagine an axe in the train now. BTY Aussie, hows the Camel train doing,now
its cross continent, (Ghan?) friend of mine bought a ticket on my chats about
world travel with him, he passed away just prior to spending a holiday in Aus,
the previous year he did Sth America by rail(well part of it), poor chap knew
his health/time was limited.

From the pictograms on board, a lot of trains seem to have a fairly good starter pack for surviving the zombie apocolypse- crowbar, saw, ladder and rope. I've not followed the arrows, but presumably these are in cabinets that can be accesed without keys (else why point out where they are?)

 

[O L Leigh]

Not forgetting the axe too. Yes, a real DIY executioner's kit.

We've had so many problems with theft from the emergency equipment cupboards that we've had pretty much all this equipment removed.

Then again, I've never been in a situation where such equipment would be necessary. In fact, the only time I know for certain when it was used was when a tree fell across the Sudbury branch and the driver and guard of a Cl153 set about clearing the line themselves.

O L Leigh

 

[merlodlliw]

Not forgetting the axe too. Yes, a real DIY executioner's kit.

We've had so many problems with theft from the emergency equipment cupboards that we've had pretty much all this equipment removed.

Then again, I've never been in a situation where such equipment would be necessary. In fact, the only time I know for certain when it was used was when a tree fell across the Sudbury branch and the driver and guard of a Cl153 set about clearing the line themselves.

O L Leigh

I recall the 1155 ex Manchester Exchange, was about 12 carriages,2 x 6
5 passenger & a guards whole carriage one for each LLandudno & Holyhead.
The guards van had a office in the middle complete with cooker & desk,it
also had a kind of fixed periscope, the rest of the van was caged off to passengers, the axe if I recall was in a leather pouch.

 

[westcoaster]

FCC are removing all fire extinguishers from there 319's blanking over the empty space.

 

[bengley]

Seat belts on trains are a total over-reaction. In the five years since the Potters Bar accident there has been just one death on-board a train, and that was at Grayrigg.

Click for source.

O L Leigh

Potters bar was 2002, 7 years ago.

 

[O L Leigh]

FCC are removing all fire extinguishers from there 319's blanking over the empty space.

Already done on WA units. The theft and vandalism problem was reaching epidemic proportions.

O L Leigh