Fantasy: Given no limits, how would you modernise your line?

[Agent_Squash]

Reading these forums, I see many fantasy ideas about push-pull 442s saving the nation and it got me thinking; my line (the Furness line) is about to lose its 185s due to the TP North capacity upgrade. So I was thinking; how would I fix it?

I'd work in combination with the Windermere line as well. Splitting and joining of services on this route at Lancaster makes the concept a lot more viable.

In terms of infrastructure, the Furness line suffers from some slow speed limits which could be raised with little work. I think an aim of 60mph between Barrow and Ulverston (where there is a lot of curves as it goes around the Furness peninsula), and 90/100mph between Ulverston and Carnforth would be a reasonable aim. It would also be a good idea to sort out the junction with the WCML at this time, removing the slow flat junction raising the capacity of the WCML at the same time. Electrification would be on the cards as it would allow good use of old EMUs - although Grayling wouldn't be too happy.

Initially (while the work to modernise the infrastructure continues), it would be an aim to give the line 1tph clock face. The line can deal with 3tph in both directions from what I've seen in the current timetable, but a consistent service will help significantly. As electrification comes online, high quality modern EMUs (ideally refurbished 350/2s from WMtrains as they already have the 110mph capability for the WCML) would operate a new service pattern. All times are from Barrow-in-Furness.

xx16: Slow to Preston, calling at all stations
xx46: Semi fast to Manchester Airport, calling at Ulverston, Grange-over-Sands, Arnside, Carnforth, Lancaster (where it joins with another service from Windermere), Preston, Wigan North Western, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.

By having all services on the line at least to Preston, the bay platforms at Lancaster can effectively be decommissioned (with Platform 5 available for Morecambe services). Routing what would be 8 car trains through the busy Wigan-Manchester corridor allows the service to easily cope with demand between what currently is the busiest section on TPEs Manchester-Scotland services. SDO would be installed using the Tracklink system (as used on SWR) allowing shorter dwell times and a more efficient service.

The Cumbrian Coast may become isolated somewhat in terms of no through running on the Furness Line, but a possible extension of Newcastle services may solve this issue. It would be an aim to harmonise Cumbrian Coast services in the new timetable with an easy connection on to the slow service at xx16.

I think I rattled on a bit, but overall it would be my way of sorting out what has the potential to be a relatively busy line. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the ideas that come along, though!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

My line is the WCML north of Preston. It needs a few more passing loops and the AT system finishing from Springs to at least Great Strickland.

 

[Lytham Local]

My line is the Blackpool South line. Don't want much - just a passing loop to give the potential for a better service.

 

[yorksrob]

I would electrify and introduce new four carriage units to the Hallam line. These would be internally almost identical to the phase 1 CIG's introduced to the Brighton line in 1964, but would have mk3 crashworthiness standards, and a disabled passengers saloon and toilet in place of the guards van as well as plug doors, retention toilets etc.

 

[Non Multi]

Maglev GWML. Six lines, (2 just for Crossrail) from Royal Oak Portal/Paddington to Slough.

 

[ooo]

Severn Beach + Other Suburban Bristol lines
Ensure all lines are electrified and double track at least and create an S Bahn style network for Bristol and the surrounding area (Portishead, Thornbury (would require reopenings), Bath and Weston

 

[PeterC]

As my local line is the Chesham branch simply enough double track for 4tph and the MLX completed so the additional 2 had somewhere to go.

 

[Wirewiper]

My fantasy would be for the Berks & Hants to be upgraded to 125mph running throughout, for the Dawlish Avoiding Line finally to be constructed, a serious upgrading of the Devon main line to Plymouth to 125mph running wherever possible - and the whole lot to be electrified including the Paignton branch. Dawlish sea wall retained for local services and electrified (well you did say this was fantasy!).

 

[Highland37]

W12 gauge everywhere.
Electrification everywhere.
Continental gauge trains.
All signalling modernised to the most modern standards.
Double track for Highland Mainline throughout.
Etc

 

[GW43125]

Obviously it won't happen for a number of reasons but four-tracking Staines to Feltham Jn would relieve a bottleneck, as would an up loop around Twickenham. Queenstown Road P1 coming back is another.

Dare i say it, a ninth line into Waterloo?

Trains for the WCML that are actually tall enough for a 6'6" person?

 

[jyte]

My fantasy would be for the Berks & Hants to be upgraded to 125mph running throughout, for the Dawlish Avoiding Line finally to be constructed, a serious upgrading of the Devon main line to Plymouth to 125mph running wherever possible - and the whole lot to be electrified including the Paignton branch. Dawlish sea wall retained for local services and electrified (well you did say this was fantasy!).

I do the penz-pad quite a bit, so I'd say-

Straighten out the B&H a lot (the 80 or 85mph curve at Sommerton and 75mph at Crofton spring to mind) to bring to a new 140mph standard (new trains can do that, so why not?) and electrify. Build a third 'up' line between the Mendip quarries and Reading for the 40-45mph stone trains, possibly extend to Castle Cary for the Weymouth services. At least from Frome-Westbury, which gives you a better opportunity to path fast trains around them.

Brand new 140mph alignment between Exeter and Newton Abbot (sorry Dawlish!) taking a geographically shorter route south of the moor. Maybe build a parkway station along there? It wouldn't be more than 10 miles from the coast, then 140mph on to Plymouth.

Beyond that? Re-organise the rail network in Cornwall, with Newquay trains running direct via Liskegard and Penzance. New straight double track tunnel and viaduct south of the existing bridge (Plymouth to Torpoint joining at St Germains) eliminating the speed and capacity constraint of the single track bridge (which would be maintained for Saltash stoppers, and provide an opportunity to loop around slower trains).

Build a geographically shorter new high speed double track throughout Plymouth-Penzance alignment, probably build some new track so Newquay trains go Liskegard-Bodmin-Newquay and high speed services run direct between Plymouth and Par, idk I haven't thought about it but Penzance-Plymouth is far from a straight line.

Oh and electrify throughout.

Idk with enough money you'd get Penzance-Pad down to 4 hours at least, maybe even 3.5 or 3. Of course you'd end up wondering how you've managed to spend like £30bn on changes to a line that would benefit probably at max 1 million people, and not that many train users either.

 

[jyte]

Trains for the WCML that are actually tall enough for a 6'6" person?

Trains tall enough for someone 6'6" in general...hear hear.

 

[GW43125]

Trains tall enough for someone 6'6" in general...hear hear.

The seats are an issue anywhere but an issue unique to the 390s is that using the facilities requires bending in an awkward way.

 

[jyte]

I like to joke the taller you get, the more acutely you feel the world is built for someone 5'10"-5'11".

 

[222ben]

My local line would be the Manchester South Junction. However, i would extend this to an entire Manchester network redevelopment. Start with a complete triple-tracking of the line from Piccadilly to the junction of the Liverpool line. Then i would rebuild the through platforms at Piccadilly so there are four platforms. Deansgate would be almost completely rebuilt too, with a new platform on the new third track, demolishing the existing westbound platform. I would which would be exclusively for remaining trains on the CLC, leaiving current tracks for Windsor Link and Chat Moss. In combination to this, I would completely rebuild the Piccadilly throat so that 13, 14, and my new 15 and 16 almost exclusively lead to the Airport and Styal lines, as well as platform extensions for Oxford Road station and the remaining existing platform at Deansgate, allowing both the CLC line stoppers to go to six coaches and the TPE Glasgow and Edinburgh trains to go to all ten coaches. I would also extend the CLC stoppers through to the Airport, and the CLC line electrified. Victoria would gain two new western bay platforms, on the site of the current car park,for the services that currently reverse in the through platforms. These would be electrified, and couldprovide a clockface 1tph service to Glasgow and Edinburgh (however, this would need WCML infrastructure improvements), starting alternately from Manchester Airport or Manchester Victoria. The Hope Valley line would be electrified as far as New Mills, and the Stockport-Stalybridge line would be upgraded, however it would lose Reddish South station, Denton would be upgraded to two platforms, and be part of a 2tph stopping service on the Hope Valley. The South TPE services would also be redirected down this line to avoid a reversal at Piccadsilly. London Euston would lose 1 Pendolino per hour to Piccadilly via Crewe, however HS2 would more than account for this .Instead there would be a 5-coach train, connecting to a similar train from Liverpool at Crewe, which would call at (from Manchester Picc), Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Stafford, Lichfield, Nuneaton, Milton Keynes Central, Watford Junction and London Euston. I would rebuild the Airport station nearer the terminals, with four ten coach capable platforms, and a possible extension to a Manchester Interchange Low Level station, for better interchange from the airport to HS2 than the currently proposed tram line. As well as this, I would upgrade the transpennine lines so they are both 75-100mph throughout, and the TPE line getting passing loops and quadruple track at some locations to allow for an extra tph, up to 7tph. The extra TPH would serve the intermediate stations to be served by the skip-stopper, to be able to instate 2 services from Leeds to Manchester, with their only stop at Huddersfield. The line would also receive electrification throughout. This would allow for rebuilding of the 802s as straight electrics and the 68s replaced with 88s. While I'm at it, I might as well grade-separate Ordsall Lane Junction and build a new Regent Road station at the M602 roundabout.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm not going to talk about the GWML since that's already been modernised...

But for the MML I would straighten out the line and increase the speed limits to 125mph.
As well as elctrification I would also replace the horrible 222s with some nice intercity EMUs such as the Siemens Velaro.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The south WCML doesn’t need much doing to it, really. All I’d do is completely cease timetabled 4 car operation on all routes including north of Northampton, and have all peak trains into and out of Euston as 12 car, which would just require some additional Desiros. Also give the 350s a full interior refurb, including fitting new seats (Grammer E3000) to the 350/2s in 2+2 formation, and new 2+1 First Class seats (ideally the 1st version of the IC3000).

Regarding the Furness line, my view would be to have a “Lakes and Furness” branded service group, which would be operated using new FLIRT bi modes (5 section). One train per hour from Manchester Airport splitting and joining at Lancaster running through to Barrow and Windermere, in a pure clockface pattern. Smaller Lakes and Furness stations as request stops on all trains with bus style stop buttons as per the Swiss FLIRTs. Selected services continuing onto Carlisle round the coast.

 

[TheAdelante]

I’d like the Alton line to retain their 444s on weekends.

There are three or four 444s in each direction on weekdays. I’d make all of them 444s if I could!

 

[J-2739]

My local line is also the Hallam line. Electrify with 25kv with Desiro Cities as well as direct services to London again. A local light rail network as well.

 

[adamskiodp]

As my local line is the Chesham branch simply enough double track for 4tph and the MLX completed so the additional 2 had somewhere to go.

At the risk of offending, I’d cut the Met from Amersham & Chesham and give them to Chiltern (? with a Chesham shuttle). Met line would be Watford/Uxbridge only and Chiltern have the fast line to Harrow/ Marylebone bringing back a stop at Moor Park.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the risk of offending, I’d cut the Met from Amersham & Chesham and give them to Chiltern (? with a Chesham shuttle). Met line would be Watford/Uxbridge only and Chiltern have the fast line to Harrow/ Marylebone bringing back a stop at Moor Park.

Seems rather silly to me. Would make more sense to me to run third rail out to Aylesbury.

 

[Harbornite]

Reopen Kings Norton's island platform, install a turn back siding, grade separate and electrify the fast lines through the station (and all the way to Bristol) and extend the 4 track section to Barnt Green.

 

[njamescouk]

I would electrify and introduce new four carriage units to the Hallam line. These would be internally almost identical to the phase 1 CIG's introduced to the Brighton line in 1964, but would have mk3 crashworthiness standards, and a disabled passengers saloon and toilet in place of the guards van as well as plug doors, retention toilets etc.

and double track it.

 

[urbophile]

My local line is Merseyrail Northern Line. Compared to so many others, we are lucky, and even no improvement at all would leave little room for complaints. However: for a metro service 4tph is a bit mean - 6 or 8tph would encourage more usage and mean a true turn up and go service. Merseyrail have already promised new trains (controversial as they may be to RTM) and along with them, raising platform heights for easy access. Bring it on! Several stations at least on the southern end of the line have no access for wheelchairs: lifts at Cressington and Aigburth would be a priority; Brunswick, St Michaels and Hunts Cross have ramped access which is not ideal. That and general smartening up of stations, and a proper integrated e-ticketing system.

 

[Lrd]

South WCML:

12 car 2+2 350s on all services and extend the Tring stoppers to Milton Keynes/Bletchley

 

[MG11]

Meridians on all long distance services. More Revenue Protection Officers, each with a body cam and security vest. Each station would be wheelchair accessible and have a drive-through type bus stop, connecting with local bus services.

 

[Polarbear]

My local line is Chester - Liverpool on Merseyrail. I would reinstate some of the 4 track between Hooton & Rock Ferry. This would allow a semi-fast or even express service to operate between Chester and Liverpool, which is currently quite a slow journey.

Other than that, I don't think there is much else that can be done.

 

[xotGD]

I'm not going to ask for much.

Just an hourly DMU service.

Colne - Skipton - Grassington

 

[Agent_Squash]

The south WCML doesn’t need much doing to it, really. All I’d do is completely cease timetabled 4 car operation on all routes including north of Northampton, and have all peak trains into and out of Euston as 12 car, which would just require some additional Desiros. Also give the 350s a full interior refurb, including fitting new seats (Grammer E3000) to the 350/2s in 2+2 formation, and new 2+1 First Class seats (ideally the 1st version of the IC3000).

Regarding the Furness line, my view would be to have a “Lakes and Furness” branded service group, which would be operated using new FLIRT bi modes (5 section). One train per hour from Manchester Airport splitting and joining at Lancaster running through to Barrow and Windermere, in a pure clockface pattern. Smaller Lakes and Furness stations as request stops on all trains with bus style stop buttons as per the Swiss FLIRTs. Selected services continuing onto Carlisle round the coast.

I was thinking about your idea for FLIRTs as I wrote the post actually - but I personally think that the Furness line itself can reasonably justify 2tph allowing a half hourly service. There are enough spare EMUs with electrification to operate the service at 2tph, and since they are 350s, they can be maintained at Ardwick once more.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Mid-Cheshire Line so it would be:
Electrification
Use of 323's & 331's
A spur between Knutsford & Mobberly to the WCML just south of Alderly Edge
Re-opening of the Sandbach line with double track
Double tracking the single track sections
Re-instate the Blackpool service as a connect (Calling Chester, Northwich, Knutsford, Hale (peak only), Altrincham, Stockport, Piccadilly, Oxford Road, Eccles, Wigan NW, Preston, Poulton & Blackpool N)
Toilets at Northwich & Knutsford
Complete removal of Heaton Chapel & Levenshulme from the timetable
Services to Wales