Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[Holly]

Is there any hope of making Gadbrook a parkway station?
Basically an enormous, inexpensive and secure car park for people arriving for the first train of the day (vaguely 6:30am) to Crewe.
Of course if the parking and traffic at Crewe were at lot better this would not be needed.

 

[no commute yet]

Is there any hope of making Gadbrook a parkway station?
Basically an enormous, inexpensive and secure car park for people arriving for the first train of the day (vaguely 6:30am) to Crewe.
Of course if the parking and traffic at Crewe were at lot better this would not be needed.

The towns along the Mid Cheshire Line, (Northwich, Knutsford, Altrincham) along with Middlewich, are the places that can't currently get directly to Crewe. (Warrington, Winsford, Chester, Stockport for example are already directly connected.) Each Mid Cheshire Line town, and the villages in between, have stations so, rather than drive to Gadbrook (or anywhere else), people will probably just use their local stations to connect to Crewe. Many people from those towns also work at Gadbrook. Gadbrook only has one vehicular access point for 5k people to get in and out of in cars every day so the fact the line runs alongside Gadbroook gives the chance to reduce the number of people driving along the A556 to get to it.

I had in mind the possibility of people travelling from Middlewich to that area to work on the said large industrial estate at Elworth.

The Elworth site is an industrial estate so although it's quite large it doesn't employ a high number of people. in contrast Gadbrook is a business park full of office buildings. Lots of people from Crewe and Sandbach have to fight their way through Middlewich to get to it and then have to fight with all the rest of the traffic (including Middlewichers) to get on to the site.

 

[no commute yet]

Update: Local presss reporting today that DfT and the LEP are to set up a working group about this line. Merry Christmas!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Update: Local presss reporting today that DfT and the LEP are to set up a working group about this line. Merry Christmas!

Finally some action from the DfT...

 

[childwallblues]

Has anybody considered what will happen when the train gets to Crewe? Probably be a nightmare for the signalman as there is no bay platform at the north end of the station for the service.

 

[no commute yet]

I wonder how that question would get answered if we were discussing Mid Surrey services rather than Mid Cheshire.

If a turn around at Crewe is so problematic to be prohibitive my solution would be run them to Nantwich to connect another Cheshire town to it’s Mid Cheshire neighbours.

 

[The Planner]

You would try and do what currently happens with the Northern local, you don't want to try and get it across to Nantwich.

 

[6Gman]

Update: Local presss reporting today that DfT and the LEP are to set up a working group about this line. Merry Christmas!

Oh well, that's put everything back another two years ...

 

[6Gman]

I wonder how that question would get answered if we were discussing Mid Surrey services rather than Mid Cheshire.

If a turn around at Crewe is so problematic to be prohibitive my solution would be run them to Nantwich to connect another Cheshire town to it’s Mid Cheshire neighbours.

As The Planner says, crossing over to the Salop road is the last thing you'd want to do!

Just turn it round in Platform 1.

 

[Holly]

Has anybody considered what will happen when the train gets to Crewe? Probably be a nightmare for the signalman as there is no bay platform at the north end of the station for the service.

The new (to be built) platform on the Manchester avoiding line perhaps.

 

[childwallblues]

Sorry have I missed something? Manchester avoiding line?

 

[Kettledrum]

The helpful map of Crewe station published by the Dudley mail shows where the problem is. The trains to Sandbach and beyond depart from the through platform that is platform 1.

http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/crewe.gif

The only bays on that side of the station are platforms 9 and 10 which are in the wrong place. It would be expensive but not impossible to build a north facing bay platform into the current island that houses platforms 1-5

 

[furnessvale]

Sorry have I missed something? Manchester avoiding line?

There is a plan to build platforms on the freight lines thus avoiding conflicting moves from Shrewsbury towards Manchester.

 

[QueensCurve]

You would try and do what currently happens with the Northern local, you don't want to try and get it across to Nantwich.

The helpful map of Crewe station published by the Dudley mail shows where the problem is. The trains to Sandbach and beyond depart from the through platform that is platform 1.

http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/crewe.gif

What the Dudley Mail map doesn't show is the space on the east face of the island at the North end of Platform 5. This looks as if it may previously have been home to a locomotive siding or similar. I have attached an updated map to try to show this.

The space could potentially provide an additional platform [0?] for a short train at, one would hope, reasonable cost - one new turnout plus track and buffer stop, ground clearance and modifications to railings. Going by memory this should be long enough for a Class 153 and possibly a Class 156.

The Google Map view and its 3D may help. to visualise this but it doesn't look how I remember it.

There is a plan to build platforms on the freight lines thus avoiding conflicting moves from Shrewsbury towards Manchester.

To correct the nomenclature, these are Crewe's Manchester Independent lines.

I wasn't aware of a proposal to put platforms on these, but it might make sense if the Manchester/South Wales trains could be routed via the Manchester Independent Lines and the old Platform 1 (opposite face of Platform 12). If this were done the Salop option might be on.

At the moment the Independent Lines are painfully slow: 10mph. I travelled on them all during the 1985 Crewe remodelling and was amazed that the speeds are no more than 15mph all the way from their North end to Basford Hall Junction.

 

[The Planner]

There won't be any new platforms on the east side of the station. The only likely scenario is something on the Independents if/when Crewe gets sorted in CP6 off the back of HS2 and any NR renewals.

 

[Kettledrum]

There won't be any new platforms on the east side of the station. The only likely scenario is something on the Independents if/when Crewe gets sorted in CP6 off the back of HS2 and any NR renewals.

In that case, would it be possible for any future Middlewich trains to use platform 1 at Crewe to terminate, even though it's a through platform?

 

[QueensCurve]

In that case, would it be possible for any future Middlewich trains to use platform 1 at Crewe to terminate, even though it's a through platform?

That of course is what the Manchesters do, but there may be too many of them to squeeze in a Middlewich too.

 

[The Planner]

If you wanted to, you could reverse them in 5 if there was a gap to do it. Just because it is a through platform doesn't mean you cannot terminate in it.

 

[Holly]

There is a plan to build platforms on the freight lines thus avoiding conflicting moves from Shrewsbury towards Manchester.

It's a pity WSMR is not still around.
A Northwich to Marylebone via Salop service would have been useful.
It can't be that expensive to build just one platform on a line that is already in place?

 

[childwallblues]

The helpful map of Crewe station published by the Dudley mail shows where the problem is. The trains to Sandbach and beyond depart from the through platform that is platform 1.

http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/crewe.gif

The only bays on that side of the station are platforms 9 and 10 which are in the wrong place. It would be expensive but not impossible to build a north facing bay platform into the current island that houses platforms 1-5

Platform 9 can only be accessed by trains from the Chester direction whilst Platform 10 is normally used by locomoives coming to/from the Weaver Junction which require access to the Electric Depot.

 

[6Gman]

It's a pity WSMR is not still around.
A Northwich to Marylebone via Salop service would have been useful.
It can't be that expensive to build just one platform on a line that is already in place?

It can! The Independent Line is in a deepish cutting and separated from the rest of the station by an access road.

Putting a platform on the Up Manchester Independent would be a major undertaking. Lord knows how you'd provide a platform on the Down Manchester Independent, given how close it is to the Up Liverpool Independent.

 

[6Gman]

If you wanted to, you could reverse them in 5 if there was a gap to do it. Just because it is a through platform doesn't mean you cannot terminate in it.

One or two evening Manchester stoppers appear to do just that. But there are - I think - five trains through P.5 in a normal hourly cycle, 4 Up and 1 Down (though the xx11 Dn Manchester often uses P.1).

 

[Kettledrum]

I hadn't realised just how much work Crewe station needs to get it sorted out. I'm sure when I did my work experience from school at Crewe station in the early 1980's, the local trains from Sandbach terminated in bay platforms - these are now platforms 9 and 10.

There were also express trains using the unused platform next to platform 12, and lots of trains crossed the paths of the other lines to get to their allocated platform. Since then many of the cross overs have been removed, and the tracks "simplified"

The footprint of the site is big enough, but the platforms don't give the flexibility to enable much expansion of the current network.

 

[6Gman]

I hadn't realised just how much work Crewe station needs to get it sorted out. I'm sure when I did my work experience from school at Crewe station in the early 1980's, the local trains from Sandbach terminated in bay platforms - these are now platforms 9 and 10.

There were also express trains using the unused platform next to platform 12, and lots of trains crossed the paths of the other lines to get to their allocated platform. Since then many of the cross overs have been removed, and the tracks "simplified"

The footprint of the site is big enough, but the platforms don't give the flexibility to enable much expansion of the current network.

The 1980s remodelling removed a lot of flexibility in order to allow trains to pass through at 80 (?) mph as opposed to the previous 20 (?) mph limit.

 

[childwallblues]

Yes Liverpool and Chester trains used the bays between the OLD Platforms 1 and 2.

 

[bluenoxid]

Could an island be created using the present platform 1 at the southern end of the station and create a footbridge similar to Doncaster platform 0?

 

[childwallblues]

Could an island be created using the present platform 1 at the southern end of the station and create a footbridge similar to Doncaster platform 0?

There are already five island platforms at the south end of the station (P2 3 4 7 and 8)

 

[Puffing Devil]

P1 at Crewe generally only caters for the Manchester Piccadilly stoppers that turnaround, generally 2 per hour arrive/depart. One via the Airport and the other via Stockport. Can't see it being too much of a problem turning around a 3rd train in that space.

I've also seen Euston-Manchester services call in on P1, though they normally use P5 and I've recently been on a Manchester Stopper that turned around on P5, so there is some flexibility. Assuming the same class of train, there is also the possibility of an A B use of the long platform, much like New Street. One train could be sent to the far end if another is timed to arrive soon.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

There are already five island platforms at the south end of the station (P2 3 4 7 and 8)

? Do you mean islands? as in through track on both sides, or do you bays, as in dead end platforms?

Anyhow, a bay on the back of P5 at the north end would have a usable length of about 1m, unless you're also planning to seriously modify the Crewe Arms car park and associated retaining wall.

HS2 consultation docs suggest that the Chester Independent(s) and Up Manchester Independent would be heavily realigned to accommodate a very short curved island between the Dn Manc Ind and Up Manc Ind. This would imply that Salop Goods Jn gets relayed, so possibly resignalled too.

 

[bluenoxid]

Having reviewed the map, my suggestion was to remove platform 3, and turn 1/2 to the south of the station building into an island by extending the railway line on platform 2 through the platform into the platform 1 before the railway building.

This enables multiple services from the north to use the station without blocking P5. Potentially platform 1 could be retained by extending on the platform 3 trackbed.