My suggestion to increase the prices charged by on-board trolleys

[MG11]

Moderator note: split from Rail gourmet, how does it work?

Could staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley?

People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

 

[LowLevel]

Could these staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley? People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

Do you not think 4 quid something for a single can of (warm) Stella is inflated enough?

 

[Bromley boy]

Could these staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley? People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

Do you not think 4 quid something for a single can of (warm) Stella is inflated enough?

People pay more for drinks in bars because of the ambience (probably over inflated to include staffing costs). That doesn’t apply to drinks bought on the 1530 to Runcorn, or wherever.

I’m not sure which bars you go to but, even in central London, a fiver generally buys something nicer (and a tad more hoppy) then a tepid can of “wife beater”!!!

 

[Starmill]

Could these staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley? People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

Have you not heard of price elasticity of demand?

 

[MG11]

[

People pay more for drinks in bars because of the ambience (probably over inflated to include staffing costs). That doesn’t apply to drinks bought on the 1530 to Runcorn, or wherever.

I’m not sure which bars you go to but, even in central London, a fiver generally buys something nicer (and a tad more hoppy) then a tepid can of “wife beater”!!!

Does the convenience of having a drink served on board not contradict the lack of ambience though? Remember as well, that usually, the RG host gives a (plastic) glass to drink out of, just like in a bar. Bars in London can easily exceed £5 for a drink, last boxing day, I paid £5.10 for a beer in a bar near Barbican. But, even up north, drinks can be around the £5 mark, the bar at the Double Tree Manchester charges £5 for a beer. These prices make RG's £3.30 price (last time I checked) look a little cheap. Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

 

[route101]

The thing that puts me off buying beer of a trolley is it may be unchilled !

 

[roversfan2001]

Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

That may work around London and the South East where £4.50 for a pint is reasonable.

On the East Lancashire Line (for example)? No chance. @Starmill mentioned PED a few posts above, but income elasticity of demand comes into it too; in areas such as Blackburn/Burnley etc. people may pay £3.30 for a can on-board but £4.50 may simply just price people out, and therefore lose revenue for RG.

 

[MG11]

That may work around London and the South East where £4.50 for a pint is reasonable.

On the East Lancashire Line (for example)? No chance. @Starmill mentioned PED a few posts above, but income elasticity of demand comes into it too; in areas such as Blackburn/Burnley etc. people may pay £3.30 for a can on-board but £4.50 may simply just price people out, and therefore lose revenue for RG.

That's a fair poimt in theory. But, trolley services tend to operate between large cities, with great affluence. Are you saying that prices should fluctuate on different stretches of the journey? So, for example, Virgin charge £6 for a can until Milton Keynes, then £5, then £3 in the Greater Manchester area?

 

[roversfan2001]

That's a fair poimt in theory. But, trolley services tend to operate between large cities, with great affluence. Are you saying that prices should fluctuate on different stretches of the journey? So, for example, Virgin charge £6 for a can until Milton Keynes, then £5, then £3 in the Greater Manchester area?

In theory that'd be optimal in terms of maximising revenue, but it'd be retail suicide in practice. I do also think that the price could reasonably vary dependent on operator; so for example VT could get away with a higher price than say Northern due to the pre-existing bias that VT is a 'premium' operator whereas Northern are seen as the operator with the grubby, outdated trains with poor reliability.

 

[221129]

That's a fair poimt in theory. But, trolley services tend to operate between large cities, with great affluence. Are you saying that prices should fluctuate on different stretches of the journey? So, for example, Virgin charge £6 for a can until Milton Keynes, then £5, then £3 in the Greater Manchester area?

You really have no clue.

 

[ainsworth74]

Could these staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley?

It was £2 for a cup of tea from the trolley on VTEC the other day. I'm not sure how much higher you can go for a cup of tea before people will simply just not buy anything at all from the trolley (or buffet for that matter).

 

[yorkie]

Remember as well, that usually, the RG host gives a (plastic) glass to drink out of, just like in a bar. Bars in London can easily exceed £5 for a drink, last boxing day, I paid £5.10 for a beer in a bar near Barbican. But, even up north, drinks can be around the £5 mark, the bar at the Double Tree Manchester charges £5 for a beer. These prices make RG's £3.30 price (last time I checked) look a little cheap. Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

You are missing the fact that most people do not share your view and simply will not pay £4.50, therefore the resulting poor sales figures mean you are not increasing profit margins, in fact you would be achieving quite the opposite!

The only trolleys I will consider using are the reasonably priced ones such as the S&C and West Highland lines.

There is no way I'd pay from the trolley on a journey like York to London: it is easy to stock up before the journey to avoid the ludicrous prices charged by the likes of Virgin.

 

[yorksrob]

Trolley prices are too expensive as it is. A better idea would be to have some cheaper loss leaders, such as hot drinks and try and flog some more expensive things with them.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Trolley prices are too expensive as it is. A better idea would be to have some cheaper loss leaders, such as hot drinks and try and flog some more expensive things with them.

The profit margins on coffee are huge , which is why for example catering is provided on a good number of ATW services - (the gap between catering revenue and costs is fairly low and was attached to the franchise) - reducing the cost of hot drinks in this case would make the service unviable.....

In this case - apart from creating another customer facing staff member, it is a good source of "internal" recruitment to other jobs. My 2 pennies worth.

 

[johntea]

If I want a beer I'll just buy a pack at the station supermarket and be enjoying a drink long before a trolley arrives at my seat!

 

[yorksrob]

The profit margins on coffee are huge , which is why for example catering is provided on a good number of ATW services - (the gap between catering revenue and costs is fairly low and was attached to the franchise) - reducing the cost of hot drinks in this case would make the service unviable.....

In this case - apart from creating another customer facing staff member, it is a good source of "internal" recruitment to other jobs. My 2 pennies worth.

I don't drink coffee, I take tea !.

Preposterous fancy coffee aside, I do think that more people would be tempted to use a trolley if hot drinks were cheaper. Certainly £2 is the absolute limit, but £1.60 would be almost an incentive to buy.

 

[Parallel]

I don’t think I’d be happy to pay any more than £2 for a cup of tea on a train for a standard sized cup.

One thing I think they should look at more time appropriate food. E.g. bacon or egg & cheese baps in the morning - Maybe scones with a pot of jam and cream in the afternoon. The thought of Quavers, KitKat and a can of lager at 1030 in the morning doesn’t light up my world. Sausage or bacon bap with ketchup on the other hand...

For lunch, some kind of pasta pot, a vegan salad and maybe a sandwich option.

 

[Master29]

What a great idea. Let`s increase the prices shall we. Not all of us work in the ""business sector"" you know. Some people earn a modest wage you know (or perhaps not).

 

[Ash Bridge]

It was £2 for a cup of tea from the trolley on VTEC the other day. I'm not sure how much higher you can go for a cup of tea before people will simply just not buy anything at all from the trolley (or buffet for that matter).

Sounds like a bargain compared to what is currently charged by XC Trains e.g. £2.30 (Tea/Coffee/Hot Chocolate) or for the same on Flybe £2.50!!

 

[MG11]

The thing is, the quality of tea/coffee has improved in recent years, with brands like Azera 'Barrista Style' coffee, which isn't that different from what you'd get at a coffee shop.

RG do various cakes for around the £1.80 mark, which is cheaper than most cafes and doesn't seem to utilise on the added value of convenience. The new Karyatis mezze boxes are actually 5p cheaper to buy on board than to buy in bulk, online, direct from Karyatis!

Some of the products are priced about right, like the mini-wines and G&T cans, but I can't help but feel mark ups on certain items (beer, orange juice, cakes etc) would make profits more reliable, as many users here have said in the thread 'Rail Gourmet, how does it work?' that catering often runs at a loss.

 

[221129]

Do you work for RG or in any type of Onboard retail role? Because you really don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Mag_seven]

It was £2 for a cup of tea from the trolley on VTEC the other day. I'm not sure how much higher you can go for a cup of tea before people will simply just not buy anything at all from the trolley (or buffet for that matter).

I don't think you can get a cup of tea for less than £2 at most major station outlets (Upper Crust etc).

 

[Starmill]

Some of the products are priced about right, like the mini-wines and G&T cans, but I can't help but feel mark ups on certain items (beer, orange juice, cakes etc) would make profits more reliable

I can't stress enough that this is not how business pricing works. Higher prices do not always result in higher revenue. Let's say they take your advice and increase the price of a 90g chocolate bar to £10. How many do you think they will sell and what will the effect on revenue be?

This (along with a great many other problems with your suggestions that I really don't have time to address) has been pointed out to you politely and I hope sensitively several times but other posters seem like they might be losing patience now. Perhaps you could do some basic reading on how businesses price goods? Here's a start on something that explains the concept I mentioned earlier.

 

[bb21]

I am happy to pay £2.40 for GWR's proper Lavazza coffee from the buffet car (possibly up to £2.70 range). I will not pay £2.30 for RG's disgusting whatever instant range they have on the day.

Chiltern had the right idea a while ago when they sold fairly decent filter coffee onboard for £2, and take-up was decent.

If you sell cheap and nasty stuff then charge cheap and cheerful prices like ScotRail. If you charge premium prices then offer something of a fairly decent quality. It is no coincidence that I frequently spend some money at GWR buffets and ScotRail trolleys but not at RG trolleys.

Increase prices further and you risk killing off the service altogether.

 

[JetStream]

Could staffing issues not be solved with a price increase on the products on the trolley?

People pay more for drinks in bars because of increased staffing costs, so why not onboard trains?

Flip it round. Reduce the prices, people buy more, meaning more money for more staff.

With WHSmiths at/around a lot of bigger stations, £3.99 for a cold drink, sandwich and crisps is at least £2.50 more than most on board produce.

The trolley service on ATW had its tea and crisps reduce in size, but the price went up at the same time (from 10/12oz to 8oz for tea, and 60g to 50g for crisps) - from a combined £2.80 to £3.20.

 

[fowler9]

[

Does the convenience of having a drink served on board not contradict the lack of ambience though? Remember as well, that usually, the RG host gives a (plastic) glass to drink out of, just like in a bar. Bars in London can easily exceed £5 for a drink, last boxing day, I paid £5.10 for a beer in a bar near Barbican. But, even up north, drinks can be around the £5 mark, the bar at the Double Tree Manchester charges £5 for a beer. These prices make RG's £3.30 price (last time I checked) look a little cheap. Someone in another thread said they see RG sell can after can of ale, so surely if they bumped it up to around £4.50, given the high amounts of alcohol sales, it could pay for a wage increase for staff and also an increase in profit margin? Or, am I missing something here?

I paid £8 for a pint in Dubrovnik in a nice bar, I'm not paying £3.30 for a can of lager on a Trans Pennine service, especially not when I can get 4 cans of lager for £4.60 at the Sainsburys over the road from Lime Street.

 

[Clansman]

What makes you think increasing the prices of price inelastic service will generate enough revenue to fund extra staff?

There's only so many times you can push up prices before demand will decrease below a positon of profitability. Then what does the operator do to compensate for the loss? Prices would go up even further to compensate for the offset, and so on and so forth, until the provision will need to be pulled altogether.

It's simple economics, and unfortunatley it doesn't work very well in the instances of trolley provisions on trains.

 

[221129]

Sounds like a bargain compared to what is currently charged by XC Trains e.g. £2.30 (Tea/Coffee/Hot Chocolate) or for the same on Flybe £2.50!!

Which in fairness is the maximum end of reasonable in my opinion.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Which in fairness is the maximum end of reasonable in my opinion.

Yes, my personal opinion would be much the same.

 

[MG11]

I can't stress enough that this is not how business pricing works. Higher prices do not always result in higher revenue. Let's say they take your advice and increase the price of a 90g chocolate bar to £10. How many do you think they will sell and what will the effect on revenue be?

This (along with a great many other problems with your suggestions that I really don't have time to address) has been pointed out to you politely and I hope sensitively several times but other posters seem like they might be losing patience now. Perhaps you could do some basic reading on how businesses price goods? Here's a start on something that explains the concept I mentioned earlier.

Ofcourse, £10 for a 90g bar of chocolate would see very little sales, that would be a giant increase to what the current price is.

It's a question of "how much are people willing to pay?", the customer's "top price". I think in some cases, as mentioned earlier, RG & similar operations, have met the top price. But, in many cases, I don't think they have reached their full potential, pricing wise. If you look at the examples given i.e. Karyatis etc, you might get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.