ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[fgwrich]

With all this bike related stuff going on, I have to ask then; What is wrong with retaining the soon to be redundant TGSs?

 

[brel york]

According to angels drawing both the four and five car rake only have bike space at one end of coach C , it’s classified as a TS(B)

 

[Marklund]

With all this bike related stuff going on, I have to ask then; What is wrong with retaining the soon to be redundant TGSs?

Good question. I don't see the need to hack vehicles to bits to create bike spaces when there's a seemingly perfectly decent ready made solution, but I'm sure they know what they're doing, going by the quality information on the scheme that they've given out so far...

 

[brel york]

With all this bike related stuff going on, I have to ask then; What is wrong with retaining the soon to be redundant TGSs?

Has any of you bike enthusiasts thought that maybe they just don’t want to offer you unlimited free bike space

 

[Highland37]

Has any of you bike enthusiasts thought that maybe they just don’t want to offer you unlimited free bike space

Yes, it's very clear they don't want that which begs the question as to why they offered it. More seriously, people want to take bikes on trains. There is space. Let's get it sorted.

 

[NSEFAN]

No, I just don’t hate Voyagers. HSTs are nice but pretty ancient and I feel unsafe on them because of how uncrashworthy they are.

Ignoring the Virgin comment.

But this is completely irrational. Trains very rarely crash these days due to excellent signalling and good track safety. Altercations with cars on crossings are the biggest risk, and in most of these cases the power cars on the HST will take the brunt of the impact, protecting passengers more than a 158 or 170.

Honestly, you should be more worried about a car journey to the station than a HST causing you harm.

 

[mcmad]

Yes, it's very clear they don't want that which begs the question as to why they offered it. More seriously, people want to take bikes on trains. There is space. Let's get it sorted.

We get that you want to take your bike on the train but the majority would prefer extra seats than empty bike racks

 

[Highland37]

We get that you want to take your bike on the train but the majority would prefer extra seats than empty bike racks

I don't think that can be evidenced. We know there is high demand for bike spaces and for extra seats. The latter has been dealt with through the HSTs. The former hasn't.

 

[BRX]

And part of the point is that the HSTs, unlike the trains they will replace, have two large areas perfect for carrying bikes that can't be used for seating.

 

[brel york]

We get that you want to take your bike on the train but the majority would prefer extra seats than empty bike racks

Where does it stop , free spaces for buggy’s pushchairs and mobility scooters , their running a business

 

[43096]

Honestly, you should be more worried about a car journey to the station than a HST causing you harm.

I’m sure his chauffeur drives very carefully....

 

[BRX]

Where does it stop , free spaces for buggy’s pushchairs and mobility scooters , their running a business

Their business is fulfilling the terms of the franchise.

 

[GusB]

But this is completely irrational. Trains very rarely crash these days due to excellent signalling and good track safety. Altercations with cars on crossings are the biggest risk, and in most of these cases the power cars on the HST will take the brunt of the impact, protecting passengers more than a 158 or 170.

Honestly, you should be more worried about a car journey to the station than a HST causing you harm.

Could we please not drift back into the "how safe are HSTs" issue? Apologies to NSEFAN - I'm simply quoting your post because it is in response to another. If there is a serious issue with the crashworthiness of HSTs, would it not be better to discuss it in a new thread?

 

[brel york]

Their business is fulfilling the terms of the franchise.

Their business is shareholder profits , a certain rosco spent 50 grand on its London office Xmas party last year , hired an exclusive nightclub in London for the afternoon, these company’s are about money not more free bike travel

 

[AndrewE]

I’m sure his chauffeur drives very carefully....

If he can get to the end of his garden path and across the pavement without coming to harm first...

 

[fgwrich]

I just find it crazy that a TGS - A Vehicle designed for providing a luggage / bike space and comes complete with Train Managers Office - is being junked for the conversion of a smaller luggage come bike space and train managers office out of perfectly useable and good open Mk3s. Yes, I know you can have it all in the seats vs luggage debate but, These HSTs are being brought in to create capacity and provide a more Intercity type experience. Transport Scotland and or Abellio had a commitment to increase bike spaces. So why are TS/AB being rather coy about what they're actual plans are, and going to the expense of hacking about with the Mk3s when a near perfect solution is already available. Yes, they need refurbishing too, but to me at the very least, retaining the TGS would probably be a cheaper, simpler solution for the very longest of cross Scotland services at the very least.

To that debate / extent, I've also got to wonder why the Buffet vehicles appear to be being converted from FOs - Again, why not use the Chiltern solution and downsize the already existing TRFBs (I.e Where Chiltern refurbished their RFMs and increased the saloon space by de-creasing the buffet / kitchen space?)

Im sure you may know some of those answers BREL York, and im looking forward to the HSTs providing further life up in Scotland for many more years to come, but I do have any reservations as to why ScotRail seems to be doing things the way they are, resulting in more Mk3s being hacked around and leaving equally useable Mk3s in storage.

 

[brel york]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the luggage area in the power car isn’t locked out of use , those doors are expensive to maintain and if they open they have to work safely , cheaper to lock them and stick a label on saying out of use

 

[Highland37]

Are the plans shown on the first post of this thread, the ones that are being implemented or have significant changes been made to them?

 

[brel york]

I’ve not seen the plans at the beginning but I have access to angels predicted formation

 

[brel york]

Look very similar to latest layout drawings

 

[ainsworth74]

I have deleted an extensive off-topic conversation from this thread. Please ensure that future posts remain on topic.

 

[delt1c]

I am sure the HST (High Speed Tartan) will be great on Scot Rail, I am glad the thread is back on track. Being careful what i say here to avoid deletion

 

[brel york]

Yeah me to , I’m informed we only have two vehicles on site that will be heading to Scotland , we seem to be focusing on gwr /xct at the moment , some vehicles on test , doors working so some progress

 

[BRX]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the luggage area in the power car isn’t locked out of use , those doors are expensive to maintain and if they open they have to work safely , cheaper to lock them and stick a label on saying out of use

Actually it's even cheaper just to not run any trains at all. You have to put diesel in them, never mind about the hassle of maintaining doors so that they can open. And you have to work out timetables and all sorts of stuff. It's giving me a headache even thinking about it. Let's call the whole thing off.

 

[Highland37]

There was an excellent paragraph in a recent article in RAIL which talked about the different attitudes from the British and Scottish Governments to rail. This thread shows it's not just confined to government.

 

[ld0595]

Seems as if another set is heading up today from Laira. That must be three sets here now I think?

EDIT: Never mind - I was wrong!

 

[43096]

Seems as if another set is heading up today from Laira. That must be three sets here now I think?

That shows as being an XC service.

There are two sets on handback exam and delap repairs at Laira, and they are due off-lease at the end of the year. Handback to Angel takes place at SPM.

 

[ld0595]

That shows as being an XC service.

There are two sets on handback exam and delap repairs at Laira, and they are due off-lease at the end of the year. Handback to Angel takes place at SPM.

Whoops, so it is! I've only just noticed it said Crosscountry! Never mind then

 

[AndrewE]

There are two sets on handback exam and delap repairs at Laira, and they are due off-lease at the end of the year. Handback to Angel takes place at SPM.

Delap Repairs... delapidation remediation? SPM?

 

[43096]

Delap Repairs... delapidation remediation? SPM?

Delap = dilapidation repairs. Basically fixing faults and bringing the vehicles back to an acceptable condition that will pass ROSCO inspection.
SPM = St. Philip's Marsh depot.