Questions about signals at Perth and 170 at Broughty Ferry

[waynemorrell]

Hi,

I assume these lights seen at Perth are some sort of shunting signals but I thought these were ground mounted ?

And the green thing on the front of 170455, something wrong with the coupler ?

Thanks

 

[Domh245]

I'm by no means an expert, but signals of any sort are mounted wherever they can be (or if there is the luxury of choice, where they are most visible). And couplers often get a bag over them during winter to protect them from the worst of the elements to try and ensure that they'll work the next time you go to use them.

 

[Eccles1983]

Pic 1 - no idea the photo isnt clear enough

Pic 2 - its a coupler cover to protect it from the cold. It gets pulled around the back if required to couple.

 

[Far north 37]

View attachment 40510 View attachment 40511
Hi,

I assume these lights seen at Perth are some sort of shunting signals but I thought these were ground mounted ?

And the green thing on the front of 170455, something wrong with the coupler ?

Thanks

Frost protection for the couplers.

 

[DarloRich]

1) cant tell what you are meaning

2) Cold weather coupler bag - designed to stop frost/snow issues with the coupler in bad weather

 

[swt_passenger]

I suspect what has been described as 'shunting signals' might be 'calling on signals' mounted alongside the main aspects, as seen almost anywhere. But as said the picture is just nor very clear.

This above should be disregarded as a much clearer picture has now been posted.

 

[driver9000]

In photograph 1 they look to be shunting signals mounted above ground level as it will be the best place to put them for sighting and placement. There is no hard and fast rule that shunting signals must be on the floor. Some are post mounted and Edinburgh Waverley also has overhead shunting signals.

 

[Bromley boy]

I suspect what has been described as 'shunting signals' might be 'calling on signals' mounted alongside the main aspects, as seen almost anywhere. But as said the picture is just nor very clear.

Yes and the anal distinction between these is that "calling on signals" or, more correctly, "position light subsidiary signals" are always located with (and subsidiary to) a main aspect signal.

Shunt signals on the other hand control movements in yards and are not located with main aspect signals. These are normally ground mounted but can be mounted on sticks for better visibility, where appropriate.

A proceed aspect on either type means the same thing (proceed at caution, able to stop short of an obstruction).

 

[Scotrail84]

Pic 1 is just position light signals

Snow bags on pic 2.

 

[John Webb]

I think this shows your two signals:
Perth railway station, Perth and Kinross

© Copyright Nigel Thompson and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
(Click on picture to go to the larger original.)
They appear to be two Ground Position Light signals, but possibly mounted on the bracket arm due to sighting problems caused by the curve and the platform. I assume too that they refer to the two routes available via the point just beyond them. They've been there for a while as they are the older Red/White for stop rather than the newer Red/Red type,

 

[Railsigns]

Here's a clearer picture of the signal, number P127. The upper signal applies along the Up Fast to signal P135. The lower signal applies to signal P133 on the Up Passenger Loop. Perth is now the only location on NR where position light shunting signals are stacked in this way. Shunting signals aren't always ground mounted.

This is the relevant portion of the control panel in Perth signal box:

 

[ComUtoR]

On the control panel, I can see where the light is lit just under No. 4 but I have no idea what it signifies. I can see 127 and a Red illuminated on 133 and 135. I understand the layout and I can fully understand the signalling. Are the arrows (white switches ?) direction of flow indicators ? When permissive is given, what would the panel show ? Would the light on 127 go out ? How would the Sig know which direction the points are set from 127 ? All I see is a red light.

Cheers in advance Signaller peeps.

 

[Railsigns]

The buttons with an arrow are exit buttons. They light up when used.

The red light in the shunt signal symbol will change to white when the signal is 'off'.

The route lights through the points show which way they are set. There are also 'N' and 'R' indications above each of the individual points switches, which are located along the bottom of the panel.

 

[John Webb]

If not lit you would see that the lit white light by the 'No.4' (on the yellow line, track circuit T113) and the lit white light on the T132 section of track would have an arrow pointing to the left indicating they've been used to select that direction for a train.
To go in the reverse direction, say to signal 133, you would press the right-pointing button on T113 section and then the right-pointing button on the orange-coloured T116 section. Provided there was no conflicting route set up, the equipment would order points 378A and 378B to change if need be, and once proved they had operated correctly, the lower unit of signal 127 would clear to a "White-white" aspect and the panel light would also change to white.

 

[ComUtoR]

Thank you. Very enlightening...

 

[Railsigns]

To set a shunt route to P133, you'd turn the entrance switch at 127 then press the exit button at 133.

 

[John Webb]

To set a shunt route to P133, you'd turn the entrance switch at 127 then press the exit button at 133.

Thanks for correction - not come across this variation of panel before.

 

[AndyPJG]

To set a shunt route to P133, you'd turn the entrance switch at 127 then press the exit button at 133.

And to clarify, you turn the 'pointer' of the entrance knob down to set a shunt route, and upwards to set a main route.

 

[Railsigns]

And to clarify, you turn the 'pointer' of the entrance knob down to set a shunt route, and upwards to set a main route.

Except in the case of pre-set shunt signals such as P127, you'd turn the switch up to replace the signal to danger in an emergency.