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Class 395 makes test run out of St. Pancras

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Geezertronic

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Typical negativity in the journalism there... especially the News Reader who thought the train was going backwards, D'oh! :D
 

a22book

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I think this train speed is pretty impressive, how does it compare to similar commuter trains in the world?

The spainish seem to have a very good high speed network but I think thats just long distance and not commuter



 

stut

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I think this train speed is pretty impressive, how does it compare to similar commuter trains in the world?

The spainish seem to have a very good high speed network but I think thats just long distance and not commuter






There are some high-speed commuter services in the North of France, for example: the TERGV.

And of course, you've got the high-speed airport links (like Gardermoen and Sepang, that have spawned accompanying high-speed commuter services to the likes of Lillestrom, Eidsvoll (former) Putrajaya and Bandar Tasik Selatan (latter).
 

Edvid

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'Ebbfleet'...'going backwards'... :lol:
(Here's another BBC video)
(And yet another one)

As for the maiden services themselves (on HS1 that is, they've already carried pax on classic routes), what a pleasant surprise. Today's gen was as follows (thanks to JKA of UKmodernEMU):

395002+395006 (or vice versa)
1Z91 0545 Ashford International - London St Pancras (due 0619)*
1Z92 0747 London St Pancras - Ashford International (due 0820)
1Z93 0846 Ashford International - London St Pancras (due 0920)
1Z94 1345 London St Pancras - Ashford International (due 1418 )
1Z95 1423 Ashford International - London St Pancras (due 1457)
5Z95 16+37 London St Pancras - Ashford Dn Yard


[* At the time of posting 1Z91 was done in just 28 minutes (arr. 0613). That's the first sub-30 minute AFK-STP journey I've heard of. :o]
 
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Benn88

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I'm thinking of doing an evening peak return from St. Panc and back on these on the 29th of June, and was just wondering if Priv boxes are valid on these services? It says Railcard Discounts apply, and as far as I know it's still classed as a standard service train? Please correct me if I'm wrong, any help would be apprecaited.

Thanks.
 
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I shall be travelling on the Javelin in August, if SET are still doing the test runs then.

It certainly looks faster than the usual Networkers and Electrostars! :D
 

Edvid

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Is it just me or have Network Rail standard LED screens been installed on the high-level SER platforms at StP? All the existing screens are a type of LCD not seen anywhere else in the UK.
 

Mintona

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Rather excited about the new line. Good to see they managed Ashford in :wub:0mins, that's quite a feat on a domestic trains. Let's hope it is a success!
 

EM2

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Is it just me or have Network Rail standard LED screens been installed on the high-level SER platforms at StP? All the existing screens are a type of LCD not seen anywhere else in the UK.

Yes they have, although the rumour is that SouthEastern didn't clear it with English Heritage, and they might have to be removed.
 

westcoaster

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i see that there is another javelin in st. pancras, its been sitting there since yesterday evening, anyone know if it is broke.
 

Mintona

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Doubt it's broke, they seem to be constantly coming and going. Probably different ones.
 

fgwrich

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Mind you...if you think the BBC reporter had a variable ignorance...you should try watching BBC South Todays Paul Clifton...whatever road sceme he does...it seem to have a variable amount of praise...anything to do with the railways...well...he once kept going on about First Great Westerns 30 old Trains... >HST< over and over...When the wessex's were cruley removed by SWT they were deemed straight away as 20 Yead old trains...Note the recuring theme here - he always manages to find something top complain - Age or Money, And this week, when mentioning the ATOC plans, The line from Brockenhurst to Ringwood came up, and what did he do - complain about the cost and the timespan...:roll::roll::roll:

As the the Javelins / Chavelins...i shall remain ever doubtfull about them...sorry but to charge the price they planning when there fully running later this year, is almost first class prices of standard SET services, but then forcing more people off the normall SET services...Also still cant see why Kent was chosen for the first high speed line services...

but thats just my veiw...weve all got different opinons...:|;)

Shall see how it goes...Might change my mind later this year...
 

williamn

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I don't think Kent was 'chosen'. Its more a case that that was where the CTRL was coming through and it makes sense to make best use of the line by also having domestic trains on it.
 

Snapper

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i see that there is another javelin in st. pancras, its been sitting there since yesterday evening, anyone know if it is broke.


No, it's not. There hasn't been a single failure of a Javelin so far.

Today's run was impressive (I was on the train for RAIL magazine, which will be doing a piece in the next issue) the speed of the trip should be a real selling point. Adonis stressed in a couple of interviews that the success or failure of this service will be a litmus test for any other HSLs in the UK.
 

williamn

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I don't see why it should be a test. Any other high speed line will be based on long distance travel rather than commuting surely? I think there is doubt as to whether it will succeed simply because most commuters work in the city - a short walk from London Bridge and Cannon Street. Even if the new service is 30 mins faster the fact they will have to use the tube to get to the city will make the overall commute about the same and a good deal less pleasant!
 

jon0844

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I don't think Kent was 'chosen'. Its more a case that that was where the CTRL was coming through and it makes sense to make best use of the line by also having domestic trains on it.

And this is exactly the reason why I can't see why they were allowed to charge more money.

If the WCML or ECML was ever updated to run trains at 140-186mph then would everyone suddenly agree to paying up to 35% more?

I am almost certainly going to pay the money to try this train out - no doubt many others will - but this isn't a train for holiday makers, it's a commuter service and commuters are already paying through the nose.

Some people will find a reduction of their existing services, which isn't fair because their seasons are clearly marked 'NOT HS1' - and a colleague at work has been paying the higher price on his monthly seasons all year to pay for the introduction of a service he's not allowed to use!

And if the CTRL was already built, why the need to charge a premium to have access to it? Surely more paths/services helps pay for the original link and keeps the cost down.. economies of scale and all that.

No, it seems that because the train is faster (and 140mph isn't THAT fast - I've been on a Mk4/Mallard that has managed to get up to 140mph, GPS verified, on some stretches of the ECML) we're setting a precedent that you can charge more. God help us when other lines get upgraded or we get new rolling stock - that'll be another load of money please!

From someone who admires engineering, I do like the look of the train itself very much - but I fear for the future of high speed rail. What happens if we get trains doing 200mph or more. Double the fares? Triple?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Adonis stressed in a couple of interviews that the success or failure of this service will be a litmus test for any other HSLs in the UK.

I don't think it will fail. Brand new track allowing high speed travel, plus better signalling allowing for more efficient use of the track, ensures that it proves the need for more high speed rail - but I really do fear for the situation where we'll be hit so hard in the pocket.

If it was an Intercity route, I'd understand a premium, but this is sold as a commuter service - in many cases replacing existing services on the old/existing route.

I wonder if we'll see TOCs investigating whether they can charge more to get somewhere on a fast train, as against a semi-fast, or trains that use fast lines instead of slow.

One thing; have all the trains been delivered on time and passed all the necessary testing? It strikes me that it has really shown up Bombardier, which is a company that seems totally unable to get anything right at the moment.
 

Mystic Force

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There are plenty of instances where people pay more to use a faster train VT and chiltern for birmingham services or VT and london midland spring to mind a premium service can atract a premium price. If no one uses it because the price is too high it would probably fall.
 

me123

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Bill Turnbull's "It's going backwards" comment [:lol:] seemed to me to be a stupid mistake. Happens to everyone at some point.

Good service, though. Nice to see that plenty of people are going to benefit from the High Speed line.
 

Metroland

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The extra cost of the Javelin trains are most likely to do with the extra costs of purchasing the new train and the high track access costs on HS1. Remember HS1 and the Jubillee line extension are the most expensive railways in the world, thanks to our high land prices, difficult planning, high cost of labour, tunnelling and compensation regimes. The newest HS line in France cost £3.4 billion for 200 miles of line, compared to £5.8 billion for 69 miles on HS1, 5-6 times the cost. Which comparatively isn't bad considering the M25 widening has the same price tag and has no tunnels and extra lanes only on a few sections.

Personally I think kent commuters will pay extra for the time savings as they get over 1 hour extra at home.
 
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fgwrich

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Personally I think kent commuters will pay extra for the time savings as they get over 1 hour extra at home.

Maybe So...but dont forget that most of the Kent commuters work in the City...So after said commuter has got to St Pancras half an hour or so earlier, theyve then got to make their way across london using the already conjested Northern Line and others to make there way to the City... So basically youll get to your place of work around the time you would have by going the normall route...

Also - Note to anyone using the preview service, The times are typicaly poor unless your trying to attempt to use it from Ashford, As South Eastern are playing it just like Southerns Gatwick Express, With 3 morning peak trains from Ashford, then throught the day it runs from St Pancras to Ebbsfleet International and back...With 3 evening Peak trains to Ashford...

Note - Just like the Gatwick Express...The Peak services are one direction only...to london in the morning, and from london in the evening...:roll:

So dont expect to get to Ashford via High Speed One during the day...

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/app/webroot/files/cache/Preview Timetable.pdf
 
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Daimler

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Maybe So...but dont forget that most of the Kent commuters work in the City...So after said commuter has got to St Pancras half an hour or so earlier, theyve then got to make their way across london using the already conjested Northern Line and others to make there way to the City... So basically youll get to your place of work around the time you would have by going the normall route...

I expect most will get off at Stratford once the full service is running, thus offering a quick ride into the Docklands/City on the DLR/Central Line/NXEA.
 

ukrob

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No, it seems that because the train is faster (and 140mph isn't THAT fast - I've been on a Mk4/Mallard that has managed to get up to 140mph, GPS verified, on some stretches of the ECML) we're setting a precedent that you can charge more. God help us when other lines get upgraded or we get new rolling stock - that'll be another load of money please!

Do 91's not have speed limiters similar to a Pendolino to keep them to 125mph max? I have been on a 508 at 87mph before verified by GPS. GPS verification means nothing as it clearly wasn't doing 87mph between two stops three miles apart.
 

jon0844

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We've had this argument elsewhere before. My GPS equipment has a very sensitive and accurate chipset and the Mk4 did reach 140mph on more than one occasion (London bound). So, on that basis any limiter was faulty or disabled.

I've also been on a 313 that has done nearly 100mph - and they're down as 75mph!

Now we may agree about stopping distances, but that doesn't change anything!
 

ukrob

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We've had this argument elsewhere before. My GPS equipment has a very sensitive and accurate chipset and the Mk4 did reach 140mph on more than one occasion (London bound). So, on that basis any limiter was faulty or disabled.

I've also been on a 313 that has done nearly 100mph - and they're down as 75mph!

Now we may agree about stopping distances, but that doesn't change anything!

Why do you assume that there was something wrong with the loco that is safety related and not something wrong with your GPS - is it because it helps your argument? ;)

The 313s (and most other stock) don't have physical limiters imposed on them so they could quite easily achieve higher speeds than specced for.
 
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