Christmas Day bus services 2017

[overthewater]

What rubbish, he died when he was 80.... He left TFL when he was 70...IE he still lived for another 10 years.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

London got Bob Kiley in from New York to run the tube, and he didn't seem to regard a Christmas service as a priority. Mind you, the poor man was driven to drink by having to deal with Ken Livingstone and (indirectly) Gordon Brown with his PFI nonsense, leading to his early retirement and death. By the way, in case this is considered contentious, this was quite openly stated in both of the lengthy obituaries I read in two national newspapers.

Veering off topic - but the relaunch and revitalisation of the NYC subway is an excellent case study of how a collapsed system was rescued and restored - 30 years on , renovation etc is still very much on the agenda. Servcie quality seems no better or worse than any other major city - even the ultra efficient Germans have problems at the moment with the U-Bahn (old stock and growing demand)

Back to London - not much case for the tube running on the 25/12 - agree some limited bus operation might be advisable at some point in say zones 1/2 for a day shift - but the budgets are being challenged.....(as we all know)

 

[ashworth]

Now that most bus companies have published their bus service detail for Christmas and the New Year, I can see that my predictions made earlier in this thread are unfortunately proving to be correct.

Outside of large cities and other urban areas, where many routes have no Sunday bus services with Christmas Eve and New Years Eve being a Sunday this year and Sunday service on Boxing Day in reality it means:
Christmas Eve - no buses
Christmas Day - no buses
Boxing Day - no buses
New Years Eve - no buses
New Years Day - no buses

This isn’t just really isolated areas but large parts of the country including large villages and many market towns. Shrewsbury has often been mentioned as having no buses on Sundays.

So many people complaining about no Christmas Day buses in cities!

 

[deltic]

At the risk of going off topic afaik Bob Kiley drink problems were the result of the death of his wife and daughter in a car crash which he never got over and nothing to do with TfL

 

[radamfi]

Now that most bus companies have published their bus service detail for Christmas and the New Year, I can see that my predictions made earlier in this thread are unfortunately proving to be correct.

However, this thread has focused on the UK. In that country, even Sunday services are now too much trouble, so why would we be surprised at the lack of Christmas Day service? So forget the UK. Luckily people living in the UK don't have to go very far to find places that enjoy comprehensive service 365 days a year. I've gone abroad many times at Christmas to avoid the British nonsense.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I stay in the UK as it’s where my relatives live. Given that the vast majority of people don’t work (thankfully) on Christmas Day, there is usually someone with a car available.

 

[Deerfold]

London got Bob Kiley in from New York to run the tube, and he didn't seem to regard a Christmas service as a priority. Mind you, the poor man was driven to drink by having to deal with Ken Livingstone and (indirectly) Gordon Brown with his PFI nonsense, leading to his early retirement and death. By the way, in case this is considered contentious, this was quite openly stated in both of the lengthy obituaries I read in two national newspapers.

That's odd. I've seen several that said he died due to complications of Alzheimers and whilst he clearly had a drink problem that this stemmed from the death of his first wife and two children in a car accident in 1974.

 

[Wirewiper]

Getting back on topic:

Stagecoach in Oxford are operating a Christmas Day service on route 1 (City Centre - St Aldates) and Blackbird Leys and on Oxford Tube to and from London - usual route via Hillingdon Station.

Route 1 will depart Blackbird Leys at 09.33 and hourly to 17.33, returning from St Aldates at 10.15 and hourly to 18.15, plus 19.00

Tube will depart Oxford at 06.00 and hourly until 17.00, returning from London Victoria at 08.00 and hourly to 19.00.

Special fares will apply on Oxford Tube. All valid tickets and passes will be accepted; including return portions of period returns, and of next day returns purchased on Christmas Eve. Otherwise there is a single fare of £30 for Oxford-London or London-Oxford. Local fares are also available:
- Oxford-Thornhill or between any two Oxford stops: £3 single or £4.20 Dayrider
- Oxford-Lewknor Turn: £5 single or £8 Dayrider Gold
- Hillingdon-London Victoria or between any two London stops: £5 single
All fares can be paid in cash or using a contactless credit or debit card.

On Christmas Eve last Oxford Tube is 19.55 Oxford-London and 21.55 London-Oxford.
On Boxing Day first Oxford Tube is 06.00 Oxford-London and 08.10 London-Oxford. Otherwise Oxford Tube operates a 24-hour service throughout the Christmas and New Year period, with an enhanced service on New Year's Eve into the early morning of New Year's Day.

***********************************************************************************************

Oxford Bus are operating only their Airline services to Heathrow and Gatwick Airports on Christmas Day:

- Oxford to Heathrow Airport at 06.00 and hourly until 17.00. Coaches at 06.00, 08.00, 10.00, 12.00, 14.00 & 16.00 continue to Gatwick Airport.
- Gatwick Airport (South Terminal) to Oxford at 09.15, 11.15, 13.15, 15.15, 17.15 & 19.15 - 5 minutes later from North Terminal.
- Heathrow Airport (Central Bus Station) to Oxford at 09.10, 10.20, 11.10, 12.20, 13.10, 14.20. 15.10, 16.20, 17.10, 18.20, 19.10, 20.20.
- Heathrow Airport (Terminal 5) to Oxford at 09.20, 10.10, 11.20, 12.10, 13.20, 14.10, 15.20, 16.10, 17.20, 18.10, 19.20, 20.10.
(The slightly odd times from Heathrow Airport are because coaches coming from Gatwick Airport serve Terminal 5 before Central Bus Station, whereas coaches starting from Heathrow Airport serve Central Bus Station then Terminal 5).

 

[Dentonian]

Cost of parking?

Another example of great variation across the country, or indeed within counties. Can't speak for the South East, but surely elsewhere, there is widespread cheap/free parking for shoppers nowadays - usually provided by the retailers themselves.

 

[sheff1]

.........

 

[Antman]

I've never understood why at least TfL doesn't run buses and tubes on Christmas Day. If New York can run subways, and there broke, then why can't we?

I totally agree, obviously it would be a skeleton service and I'm sure there would be enough drivers volunteering for an enhanced rate of pay.

 

[Deerfold]

After some years of no sightseeing buses running in London (there used to be 2 routes in the early 2000s) BigBusTours are operating a diverted Blue route on Christmas Day every 20 minutes.

https://www.bigbustours.com/en/london/service-information/

 

[philthetube]

I totally agree, obviously it would be a skeleton service and I'm sure there would be enough drivers volunteering for an enhanced rate of pay.

on the underground all a skeleton service saves is drivers wages, trains would still have to be prepared, stations staffed, managers available to book staff on and deal with issues, Line controllers to look after the service, etc.etc.etc.

Busses are a different kettle of fish however, requiring far less support staff

 

[Antman]

on the underground all a skeleton service saves is drivers wages, trains would still have to be prepared, stations staffed, managers available to book staff on and deal with issues, Line controllers to look after the service, etc.etc.etc.

Busses are a different kettle of fish however, requiring far less support staff

Paris Metro runs Christmas Day, in fairness though London could manage with just buses for the day.

 

[Dentonian]

Now that most bus companies have published their bus service detail for Christmas and the New Year, I can see that my predictions made earlier in this thread are unfortunately proving to be correct.

Outside of large cities and other urban areas, where many routes have no Sunday bus services with Christmas Eve and New Years Eve being a Sunday this year and Sunday service on Boxing Day in reality it means:
Christmas Eve - no buses
Christmas Day - no buses
Boxing Day - no buses
New Years Eve - no buses
New Years Day - no buses

This isn’t just really isolated areas but large parts of the country including large villages and many market towns. Shrewsbury has often been mentioned as having no buses on Sundays.

So many people complaining about no Christmas Day buses in cities!

In these days of Sunday trading, it is certainly unacceptable that even small towns don't have local buses, if only between 1000 & 1800hrs. However, it could be argued that small shire towns tend to have higher levels of car ownership than the larger conurbations, thus services would not only be uncommercial but might need high levels of subsidy per passenger.

 

[turboslug]

In merseyside on Christmas day stagecoach will be running 11 routes every route serving a hospital, all routes run free of charge & run from lunch time until around 6pm, also mersey tunnels are free of charge on Christmas day, there are more services running on boxing day than new years day, merseyrail are running some trains on boxing day, all on merseytravel site

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The 510 Harlow - Stansted route and 309 Stortford - Stansted services even have a night service early hours of Christmas Day and Boxing Day

https://www.intalink.org.uk/uploads/publications/1554.pdf


This is probably the service that has the least gaps to it over the Christmas period

 

[Statto]

Merseyside has buses on Christmas Day, all routes serving the Hospitals & hourly between 12pm & 5pm.
10X Liverpool-St Helens
12X Liverpool-Huyton
21X Liverpool-Kirkby Tower Hill
44X Formby-Southport-Crossens
62X Crosby-Bootle-Aintree Hospital
102X Broadgreen Hospital-Croxteth-Aintree Hospital
110X New Brighton-Birkenhead-Clatterbridge Hospital
118X New Brighton-Arrowe Park Hospital-Mill Park
194X/195X St Helens-Whiston Hospital-St Helens Circular
201X Liverpool City Centre-Royal Liverpool Hospital-Speke

Boxing Day
Mostly Sunday Service, with reduced frequencies on some routes, & some services that operate Sundays not operating on Boxing Day services operate mostly 9am to 7pm some services start earlier & finish later.

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/trav...ristmas and New Year Transport Guide 2017.pdf

 

[A0]

In these days of Sunday trading, it is certainly unacceptable that even small towns don't have local buses, if only between 1000 & 1800hrs. However, it could be argued that small shire towns tend to have higher levels of car ownership than the larger conurbations, thus services would not only be uncommercial but might need high levels of subsidy per passenger.

Except the Sunday services there are, aren't being particularly well used. So they're running with massive subsidies.

Unless the farebox revenue goes up, these services aren't viable.

And people have 6 other days to go shopping - particularly true of the many pass holders who are using the buses but who's use isn't making the services viable.

 

[Typhoon]

Merseyside has buses on Christmas Day, all routes serving the Hospitals & hourly between 12pm & 5pm.

FREE as well. Shows that at least some at least some people are putting the needs of people first - at least the people of Merseyside can visit sick relatives on a day when they are likely to feel particularly lonely.

 

[Redone]

Only tenuously linked to the theme.
Cuckmere Community Buses are running a service on New Year's Day (http://www.polegatetowncouncil.gov.uk/new-years-day-service-timetable) serving areas that otherwise would have no bus service on that day. It appears that the Stagecoach default position is no service on Christmas Day and New Year's Day (possibly exceptions - council contracted services).

More positively, amplifying #18, further along the coast Bluestar are operating a hospital service in Southampton (http://www.buscms.com/BlueStar2015/uploadedfiles/Bluestar_Xmas_Day_web-tt_2017_route_18withmap.pdf) and More have two services (http://www.buscms.com/morebus/uploa..._preview_web-tt_Xmas_Day_2017_m1_m2_PRESS.pdf), one serving Bournemouth Hospital.

The Metrobus service referred to runs, impressively, throughout Christmas Day (and night) with the support of Gatwick Airport.

First are operating an all day half-hourly service from Slough to Heathrow (7/ N7). The Oxford Bus Company will only operate services to Heathrow and Gatwick.

The moral seems to be that if you want to travel by bus on Christmas Day, live near an airport or hospital!​

Or on the Isle of Wight where there are regular services most of the day on the main routes and a full Sunday service on Boxing Day. None of this shoddy packing up mid-evening on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve either. Even though it is a Sunday, News Year Eve has a full Saturday night bus service. If you want people to use buses you need to give them a service whenever they may need it. A lift sought out for ANY time there is no service often results in another lost bus passenger.

 

[Busaholic]

That's odd. I've seen several that said he died due to complications of Alzheimers and whilst he clearly had a drink problem that this stemmed from the death of his first wife and two children in a car accident in 1974.

I perhaps should not have said 'early retirement' in the sense of his age. but by the time he officially retired from his London post he had in fact been gone for at least a couple of years on medical grounds and may not even have been in the U.K. for the majority of that time. Although it must have been unbelievably awful to lose his family in those circumstances, his successful tenure at New York was long after those events. I'm sure he would not have taken the London job if he'd known what he was heading to: I've just read online the Guardian obituary, which I'd not done before, and that too made quite clear the poisoned chalice he was about to sup from. Alzheimer's sufferers rarely live for a decade after diagnosis, so it's fairly certain that was not a factor in his London travails.

 

[Deerfold]

I perhaps should not have said 'early retirement' in the sense of his age. but by the time he officially retired from his London post he had in fact been gone for at least a couple of years on medical grounds and may not even have been in the U.K. for the majority of that time. Although it must have been unbelievably awful to lose his family in those circumstances, his successful tenure at New York was long after those events. I'm sure he would not have taken the London job if he'd known what he was heading to: I've just read online the Guardian obituary, which I'd not done before, and that too made quite clear the poisoned chalice he was about to sup from. Alzheimer's sufferers rarely live for a decade after diagnosis, so it's fairly certain that was not a factor in his London travails.

The average Alzheimers sufferer lives 8-10 years after diagnosis, and it's not rare to live over a decade over diagnosis. However, I wasn't claiming that his time at TfL was affected by Alzheimers, merely correcting your claim that his death was caused by being driven to drink by Ken Livingstone and Gordon Brown.

He states that he'd had a drink problem for a long time https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/mar/28/london.london - I don't know if he was an alcoholic whilst at New York, but many alcoholics can function very well for years (although probably doing a lot of damage to their health).

Do feel free to share where your information is coming from.

 

[Busaholic]

The average Alzheimers sufferer lives 8-10 years after diagnosis, and it's not rare to live over a decade over diagnosis. However, I wasn't claiming that his time at TfL was affected by Alzheimers, merely correcting your claim that his death was caused by being driven to drink by Ken Livingstone and Gordon Brown.

He states that he'd had a drink problem for a long time https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/mar/28/london.london - I don't know if he was an alcoholic whilst at New York, but many alcoholics can function very well for years (although probably doing a lot of damage to their health).

Do feel free to share where your information is coming from.

I never claimed that Kiley's death was caused by drink.
I get my 'information' from a lifetime of reading and listening, basically newspapers, magazines and the wireless. That way I find I'm often better informed than others may be, at least on the subjects that I'm interested in. From what I read/hear I sometimes draw my own conclusions from what may start as unrelated threads e.g.. in this instance, the loathing of Livingstone by Brown (I don't know whether this was reciprocated), the disaster of the so-called Private Public Partnership relating to London Underground and, lastly, Kiley's drink problem. I was therefore entirely unsurprised when I read in the Evening Standard that his drinking was possibly exacerbated by the position he had been dumped in: I thought this was highly probable, and, given our ridiculous libel laws, the fact it was printed in the first place, and not retracted later, gave it some authenticity. Your obvious disagreement with my conclusion, without providing some insight of your own, does not make me resile from it one jot.

 

[jonesy3001]

Malta Public Transport put the schedule up for Christmas 2017
https://www.publictransport.com.mt/en/news-details/public-transport-service-during-christmas-period

 

[Deerfold]

I never claimed that Kiley's death was caused by drink.

London got Bob Kiley in from New York to run the tube, and he didn't seem to regard a Christmas service as a priority. Mind you, the poor man was driven to drink by having to deal with Ken Livingstone and (indirectly) Gordon Brown with his PFI nonsense, leading to his early retirement and death. By the way, in case this is considered contentious, this was quite openly stated in both of the lengthy obituaries I read in two national newspapers.

This may have not been your intention but this bit reads exactly as if that's what you're claiming.

I get my 'information' from a lifetime of reading and listening, basically newspapers, magazines and the wireless. That way I find I'm often better informed than others may be, at least on the subjects that I'm interested in. From what I read/hear I sometimes draw my own conclusions from what may start as unrelated threads e.g.. in this instance, the loathing of Livingstone by Brown (I don't know whether this was reciprocated), the disaster of the so-called Private Public Partnership relating to London Underground and, lastly, Kiley's drink problem. I was therefore entirely unsurprised when I read in the Evening Standard that his drinking was possibly exacerbated by the position he had been dumped in: I thought this was highly probable, and, given our ridiculous libel laws, the fact it was printed in the first place, and not retracted later, gave it some authenticity. Your obvious disagreement with my conclusion, without providing some insight of your own, does not make me resile from it one jot.

You're quite free to draw your own conclusions. However when several go against things I have seen quoted as fact by several sources, it doesn't seem unreasonable to question them.

It seems clear that his drinking was exacerbated by the position he was in - however that position, as he explained, was having lots of free time and not a lot to do (and presumably plenty of time to think about the past). This did follow various disagreements over PFI, but his drinking seems to precede that and was not the cause of his death - the two claims I queried.

 

[duncanp]

Worth pointing out that in many French towns (eg Lille, Valenciennes, Marseille) there is a complete withdrawal of public transport services on 1st May (Fete De La Travail). On other public holidays, including Christmas Day, a Sunday service operates.

Paris is an exception to this rule, where services operate 365 days per year.

 

[AY1975]

After some years of no sightseeing buses running in London (there used to be 2 routes in the early 2000s) BigBusTours are operating a diverted Blue route on Christmas Day every 20 minutes.

https://www.bigbustours.com/en/london/service-information/

There was also a special Christmas Day vintage bus service on part of route 430, between Putney Bridge station and Roehampton, using an RT. It was an hourly service, with seven out and back journeys. I was staying with my parents in Putney over Christmas, and my dad and I went for a ride on it. It was free, but the friendly Australian conductress still gave every passenger a ticket.

A few people were out photographing it, and some people who saw it appeared to decide then and there to hop on and take a trip on it. There are still details of this service at http://1950s-vintage-bus-hire.co.uk/

 

[Busaholic]

There was also a special Christmas Day vintage bus service on part of route 430, between Putney Bridge station and Roehampton, using an RT. It was an hourly service, with seven out and back journeys. I was staying with my parents in Putney over Christmas, and my dad and I went for a ride on it. It was free, but the friendly Australian conductress still gave every passenger a ticket.

A few people were out photographing it, and some people who saw it appeared to decide then and there to hop on and take a trip on it. There are still details of this service at http://1950s-vintage-bus-hire.co.uk/

I can see why it was given the number 430, but it was a shame imo that the service couldn't be run as a no. 30. which it traditionally was. The very first RTs, the so-called 'prewar' ones in the series 1-151, operated from Putney Bridge garage (code F) on this and a couple of other routes, although only RT1 was strictly speaking pre-war.