National Express and Megabus: Dupes or increased frequency

[Martin1988]

In particularly on services to London I've been aware of instances where services have had an increased frequency at busier periods. For example here in Bristol the 040 service to London has, for a good while operated up to every 30 minutes on Friday and Sunday afternoon/evening although there was a period of about 15 months where the 30 minute frequency at weekends was dropped before being reinstated. From what I observed during this time there was a considerable increase in the number of duplicates being used at weekends.

I have also been aware of other routes which have never had an increased frequency at weekends or where additional journeys have been cut back but which have regularly seen duplicate coaches. Making me wonder why if a service is that busy that a second coach is needed, why you wouldn't just make it official and operate an enhanced timetable.

What are the advantages of one of these two methods over the other in terms of meeting demand for travel at busy times.

 

[overthewater]

Megabus works like this. There put out 65 seats for a route, if all the seats are sold with time to spare ( Ie 4 weeks left etc or something to that effect) then there will throw out another 49 seats for booking as a dup to see if there is any more demand. Again it could just be certain sections of the route which are busier. I do know that a few Edinburgh or glasgow to London dups operate non stop because there full. Overall Stagecoach are not wasting it limited resources on extra work, and can make sure all bases are covered.

 

[philthetube]

Cheaper to operate dupes, you can put them on a needed, easier to hire in for dupes as well, a company driver will be there who knows what they are doing.

 

[Barry K]

A company driver will be there who knows what they are doing.

As an ex, non-owned-ops driver, HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! We used to be told "You're doing a Dupe on X", then we'd be given the paperwork the day before (If we weren't resting), and expected to find the stops and parking ourselves before trying not to get hopelessly lost. Then we'd have paperwork from NX saying "You are a dupe, operating between point A and point B non-stop, although you may be asked to serve additional stops by an NX official". That would then turn into the service car driver saying "You're doing all stops, right?", and "We'll load you first", assuming they were even there. Sometimes, you'd be there on your own, the NX staff at Victoria having disappeared, trying to explain, why you're only taking passengers going to point X, and not all stops. I didn't like NX work generally, but if it was Dupe work, you knew you were gonna get screwed.

Although I did manage to convince Penzance-London drivers that my way of doing things single-driver from Plymouth when there were no trains (Dawlish collapse) was the better option......

 

[Martin1988]

Thanks to those who have responded.

Something else I'd be interested to find out, does the decision to run extra journeys at busy times or schedule dupes depend on whether there is an operator with spare NX/Megabus vehicles?

For example there now appear to be more weekend journeys on the M10 route between Bristol and London, all worked by SGBC with Megabus branded vehicles.

Am struggling to work out why RATP Bournemouth are operating some of the weekend journeys on the 040 when the rest are being operated by either Bennetts or Edwards?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks to those who have responded.

Something else I'd be interested to find out, does the decision to run extra journeys at busy times or schedule dupes depend on whether there is an operator with spare NX/Megabus vehicles?

For example there now appear to be more weekend journeys on the M10 route between Bristol and London, all worked by SGBC with Megabus branded vehicles.

Am struggling to work out why RATP Bournemouth are operating some of the weekend journeys on the 040 when the rest are being operated by either Bennetts or Edwards?

Dupes are identified/released onto the system and the resources are then secured.

Some are “standing dupes” e.g. the same journey duped every Friday from May to Sep. Others are adhoc dupes on a day to day basis.

In some areas, a particular operator will have first refusal on work.

 

[route101]

Megabus works like this. There put out 65 seats for a route, if all the seats are sold with time to spare ( Ie 4 weeks left etc or something to that effect) then there will throw out another 49 seats for booking as a dup to see if there is any more demand. Again it could just be certain sections of the route which are busier. I do know that a few Edinburgh or glasgow to London dups operate non stop because there full. Overall Stagecoach are not wasting it limited resources on extra work, and can make sure all bases are covered.

On the megabus overnighters between London and Glasgow the dupes were sometimes a citylink panther , if you were going to Glasgow say then you put on that instead of the vanhool which was quieter and more comfortable

 

[Martin1988]

Thanks for those interesting point.

With regards dupes out of Bristol a few years ago Newbury Coaches seemed to be used a lot on 040 dupes and for the last year or so they seem to have been largely Applegates.
Obviously SGBC did a good number prior to May and Edwards have done some since.

Would SGBC have been one of those operators who was offered first refusal of dupe work out of the area?

 

[anti-pacer]

I used to be the assistant manager for NX in the Nottingham travel centre and we loaded "Dupes" up first, especially on London services. Any passengers for Victoria I would put on the dupe, and send it direct once full. The remaining passengers for Victoria would then go on the service coach with the MK and if it stopped there, Golders Green.

There was one of our drivers though, who in fairness I was friends with (and still am) who used to tell dupe drivers that they were doing all stops and he was going direct. I had to put a stop to that, needless to say.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I used to be the assistant manager for NX in the Nottingham travel centre and we loaded "Dupes" up first, especially on London services. Any passengers for Victoria I would put on the dupe, and send it direct once full. The remaining passengers for Victoria would then go on the service coach with the MK and if it stopped there, Golders Green.

There was one of our drivers though, who in fairness I was friends with (and still am) who used to tell dupe drivers that they were doing all stops and he was going direct. I had to put a stop to that, needless to say.

When planning and booking dupes, it was almost always on the basis that they were doing the whole route for mileage and charging purposes.

If the day team or local managers/inspectors wanted to send dupes direct (and on the North Wales holiday expresses, they may have had a Towyn coach, a couple of Rhyl coaches, and a service car), then that was a decision "on the day".

 

[anti-pacer]

When planning and booking dupes, it was almost always on the basis that they were doing the whole route for mileage and charging purposes.

If the day team or local managers/inspectors wanted to send dupes direct (and on the North Wales holiday expresses, they may have had a Towyn coach, a couple of Rhyl coaches, and a service car), then that was a decision "on the day".

They still did the full route but just not the stops in between on London routes, which is where most of our dupes were placed. There was always significant passenger flow to Victoria to fill up a coach and send it direct, whilst the service coach fulfilled all stops plus any remaining Victoria passengers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They still did the full route but just not the stops in between on London routes, which is where most of our dupes were placed. There was always significant passenger flow to Victoria to fill up a coach and send it direct, whilst the service coach fulfilled all stops plus any remaining Victoria passengers.

Likewise, a coach from Liverpool to Rhyl might have just run via the M53/A55 leaving the service car to serve the fleshpots of Talacre or Flint!

 

[anti-pacer]

Likewise, a coach from Liverpool to Rhyl might have just run via the M53/A55 leaving the service car to serve the fleshpots of Talacre or Flint!

Not forgetting the glitz and glamour of Prestatyn.

 

[Martin1988]

When the 532 (Edinburgh to Plymouth) is duped it is pretty much always the section between Birmingham and Bristol with Bristol passengers being put on the dupe and passengers for other destinations being put on the service car. Remember one journey about a year ago where I was the last to board and put on the service car instead

Remember one instance though when it was duped to Taunton with passengers for that destination being boarded first and then the remaining seats being filled up with Bristol passengers.

Also been on a few journeys in the past where the service car has been filled up and I've ended up on a dupe with only a handful of other passengers.

 

[Lrd]

I used to drive the 032 from Southampton to London and we would often get a dupe but if it was the students going home then I would send the dupe to Southampton University, fill up and go direct to Victoria, then I'd go in after waiting at the Central coach station to pick up the leftovers.

Likewise leaving London, we always loaded the dupe first and Victoria NatEx staff would often let them back out and leave early while I waited for the correct departure time, sometimes only having 5-10 passengers on.