GWR Escalation through customer services -- Can it ever be achived?

[56 1/2]

A silly parking incident at a GWR station is causing me a lot of stress. I am pretty sure that GWR were the cause / permited the madness at the station, I ended up with a parking ticket from ACPOA and I feel justified in my actions and will fight it to the death.
Neither of them want to address the cause and I am getting batted between them, GWR are ridiculous with a 3 week delay even to an email reply, and all you get is Customer services speak.

How can I get CS to drop the case and let legal take over, or at least get a named and empowered case handler with his / her own MBX and a reasonable turn round I feel justified in a counter claim of several hundred pounds for distress and wasted time. Will CS still handle the matter if I do go that route.

 

[thejuggler]

Forget all that. Go to moneysavingexpert private parking ticket forum and search for Apcoa. Plenty of advice, but you will need to give full details of the incident.

 

[island]

I think you need to be careful with that recommendation. Private parking tickets issued on railway land have the backup of the railway byelaws and become a criminal matter if not dealt with.

Would the OP please give more particulars of what has happened to date to enable us to give best advice.

 

[thejuggler]

Which is why I said he would need to give full details.

Some tickets have the back up of railway byelaws, many don’t. The devil is in the detail which has not been provided.

However if the OP has at any time revealed he was driving he may be stuffed.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I ended up with a parking ticket from ACPOA and I feel justified in my actions and will fight it to the death.

You will probably not welcome this advice.....

but is it worth taking a step back? If you are planning to fight to the death, that suggests a certain lack of compromise in your current position.

If you are worried about being stressed, the easiest solution may be to just write the matter off to experience, and move on.

 

[AlterEgo]

A silly parking incident at a GWR station is causing me a lot of stress. I am pretty sure that GWR were the cause / permited the madness at the station, I ended up with a parking ticket from ACPOA and I feel justified in my actions and will fight it to the death.
Neither of them want to address the cause and I am getting batted between them, GWR are ridiculous with a 3 week delay even to an email reply, and all you get is Customer services speak.

How can I get CS to drop the case and let legal take over, or at least get a named and empowered case handler with his / her own MBX and a reasonable turn round I feel justified in a counter claim of several hundred pounds for distress and wasted time. Will CS still handle the matter if I do go that route.

You’re going to have to tell us some of the details so we can advise better. It’s never good to hear someone say they’ll fight something to the death, etc etc.

Last time someone said that on here was a dispute with SWT and they were taken to the cleaners.

 

[fowler9]

A silly parking incident at a GWR station is causing me a lot of stress. I am pretty sure that GWR were the cause / permited the madness at the station, I ended up with a parking ticket from ACPOA and I feel justified in my actions and will fight it to the death.
Neither of them want to address the cause and I am getting batted between them, GWR are ridiculous with a 3 week delay even to an email reply, and all you get is Customer services speak.

How can I get CS to drop the case and let legal take over, or at least get a named and empowered case handler with his / her own MBX and a reasonable turn round I feel justified in a counter claim of several hundred pounds for distress and wasted time. Will CS still handle the matter if I do go that route.

Ask what their escalation process is, get legal advice and stop pestering customer services for compensation for your personal distress, its not going to happen.

 

[56 1/2]

Thanks to all who replied so far,

I don't want to give full details, I in my old fashioned way I think that management may monitor this forum and I do not want to try and intimidate them, despite that I am squeezed by ACPOA and clocks on one side and the oh so slowly GWR then all you get is ladybird book level CS trying to ignore everything they can not understand on the other side.

Ego and Fawkes I understand the cautions you give me, what happened that day was bullying, and they are bullying me again by the soft and idiot approach, ie NOT investigating the actions of GWR staff and or person or persons unknown to me. I have learnt through life what should happen to bullies - that's why I don't want to drop it, and YES it will be stress and misery, and in just world GWR will be held to account, in the meantime I have a duty to make the process as quick and cheap as possible, that's why I am trying to escalate!

Fowler9 - If only they made your suggestions easy, I have not asked CS for compensation, the first thing I need is GWR's justification or witness statements that explain the way that station and car park were / are run, its unfair to deny me this when I am trying to organise if I have a case. n So far it seems that no one has got through the glass ceiling, I have asked one CSR about escalation, he either did not understand what I said or was being dumb obstructive.

Maybe I will crash and burn - or maybe there is justice - please don't laugh when it goes wrong for me.

 

[farleigh]

Good luck - I hope you are successful.

 

[Hadders]

I can't advise without fully details but what I would do is to write to the Company Secretary at the Registered Office address. Send by recorded delivery, being concise and specific about what you need.

 

[Clip]

Thanks to all who replied so far,

I don't want to give full details, I in my old fashioned way I think that management may monitor this forum and I do not want to try and intimidate them, despite that I am squeezed by ACPOA and clocks on one side and the oh so slowly GWR then all you get is ladybird book level CS trying to ignore everything they can not understand on the other side.

Ego and Fawkes I understand the cautions you give me, what happened that day was bullying, and they are bullying me again by the soft and idiot approach, ie NOT investigating the actions of GWR staff and or person or persons unknown to me. I have learnt through life what should happen to bullies - that's why I don't want to drop it, and YES it will be stress and misery, and in just world GWR will be held to account, in the meantime I have a duty to make the process as quick and cheap as possible, that's why I am trying to escalate!

Fowler9 - If only they made your suggestions easy, I have not asked CS for compensation, the first thing I need is GWR's justification or witness statements that explain the way that station and car park were / are run, its unfair to deny me this when I am trying to organise if I have a case. n So far it seems that no one has got through the glass ceiling, I have asked one CSR about escalation, he either did not understand what I said or was being dumb obstructive.

Maybe I will crash and burn - or maybe there is justice - please don't laugh when it goes wrong for me.

Basically gwr will have outsourced their car parking to apcoa and leave it to them to manage it.
If it's a pay car park and you didn't pay then the byelaws work
If you parked outside of any of the car park guidelines then byelaws work.

I doubt a car parking fI'm read these forums but without anymore detail then the advice from hadders above is the best you'll get from here

 

[richw]

Emailing the M.D. always gets a quick response.
It’ll be mark.hopwood at whatever domain they’re using these days

 

[JN114]

Without further details it’s going to be very difficult to advise I’m afraid; although you might be able to answer this one without giving too much away - how can GWR cause you to get a parking ticket?

The APCOA parking restrictions are pretty much black and white; and most are enforced with ANPR - but their appeals process is, in my experience, quite reasonable.

Escalation you have to be very careful with; and should be done through the correct channels (I’ve seen some suggest writing to the MD; however these tend to just get forwarded back to Customer Services to deal with so you’re just wasting your time). The weekday daytime social media team at GWR can usually look into case progress and assist with escalation (nights and weekends it’s run by different staff who can only really look into current train running matters) - perhaps touch base with them and see if they can assist?

 

[fowler9]

Thanks to all who replied so far,

I don't want to give full details, I in my old fashioned way I think that management may monitor this forum and I do not want to try and intimidate them, despite that I am squeezed by ACPOA and clocks on one side and the oh so slowly GWR then all you get is ladybird book level CS trying to ignore everything they can not understand on the other side.

Ego and Fawkes I understand the cautions you give me, what happened that day was bullying, and they are bullying me again by the soft and idiot approach, ie NOT investigating the actions of GWR staff and or person or persons unknown to me. I have learnt through life what should happen to bullies - that's why I don't want to drop it, and YES it will be stress and misery, and in just world GWR will be held to account, in the meantime I have a duty to make the process as quick and cheap as possible, that's why I am trying to escalate!

Fowler9 - If only they made your suggestions easy, I have not asked CS for compensation, the first thing I need is GWR's justification or witness statements that explain the way that station and car park were / are run, its unfair to deny me this when I am trying to organise if I have a case. n So far it seems that no one has got through the glass ceiling, I have asked one CSR about escalation, he either did not understand what I said or was being dumb obstructive.

Maybe I will crash and burn - or maybe there is justice - please don't laugh when it goes wrong for me.

I would have thought they would be obliged to tell you their escalation process, I know I have to in my job dealing with complaints. I'm sorry they are making it such a pain for you. Where I work e mailing the MD would still result in the regular staff dealing with the complaint, but they would be making damn sure that absolutely everything is done by the book (Not that we don't normally, ha ha). Good luck with your case anyway.

 

[MG11]

I agree with the others, we will need full details to determine if a byelaw offence has been committed here.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I understand your frustrations, and without knowledge of your case, I am not replying directly. However, I work as a Customer Service Manager so can answer some general points. Without revealing any trade secrets!

We get many people who believe good customer service is giving them what they want. Whereas this is not the case. Generally companies will treat everyone equally. So anyone else who had the same problem will get the same treatment.

If you email the MD (or any other director) it will just be passed to the customer service team. Don't think the person you emailed will actually read the email. Although most companies have a team who (amongst other things) deal with these emails, but they will search for other correspondence from you, and merge them all together. It may, or may not, get a faster response depending on work load.

If the thing you are complaining about is contracted out to another company (for example car parking) then the company it is contracted out to, will usually deal with all the complaints as part of their contract. So it is best to deal with them directly. If you feel the company who contracted it out were in some way to blame, put that in the complaint to the contract company, and they will investigate with the company directly. They will have a direct contact, and get a much faster response. If the actual company (rather than the contractor) were at fault, they will then respond directly to you.

No company necessarily has to have an escalation process, as the front line staff can do everything. Otherwise, everyone would have to be a manager, and that rather defeats the point. It is best to offer what you feel the solution should be, and that gives them something to work with. But make it reasonable. Ultimately, the company lawyers will decide what the outcome would be if it went to court, and that will decide what, if anything, is done.

In the crudest terms, the cost of a lost customer who is unhappy at an outcome, will be less that what the car park brings in, so that could be viewed as the price that has to be paid. By all means fight it, but I wouldn't let it cost you any money. If I had had a £1 for everyone who said "I'll see you in court" I wouldn't need to work! However, very very few actually do. And you can rest assured the company will not let it get to court if they are not confident of victory. We have recently been to court with an unhappy customer, and we won. But they were determined to go to court over it. Goodness knows what it cost them!

In your case, I would certainly be approaching the car park contractor.

 

[Master29]

I think you need to be careful with that recommendation. Private parking tickets issued on railway land have the backup of the railway byelaws and become a criminal matter if not dealt with.

Would the OP please give more particulars of what has happened to date to enable us to give best advice.

I`m not entirely sure this is true. TOC`s won`t usually get involved with PPC parking issues. Why should they and it would only rarely become a criminal matter if the PPC decides to take the matter on of which APCOA like most other PPC`s rarely ever do. I am speculating here but if the OP had ignored this in the first place it may never have become an issue.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks to all who replied so far,

I don't want to give full details, I in my old fashioned way I think that management may monitor this forum and I do not want to try and intimidate them, despite that I am squeezed by ACPOA and clocks on one side and the oh so slowly GWR then all you get is ladybird book level CS trying to ignore everything they can not understand on the other side.

Ego and Fawkes I understand the cautions you give me, what happened that day was bullying, and they are bullying me again by the soft and idiot approach, ie NOT investigating the actions of GWR staff and or person or persons unknown to me. I have learnt through life what should happen to bullies - that's why I don't want to drop it, and YES it will be stress and misery, and in just world GWR will be held to account, in the meantime I have a duty to make the process as quick and cheap as possible, that's why I am trying to escalate!

Fowler9 - If only they made your suggestions easy, I have not asked CS for compensation, the first thing I need is GWR's justification or witness statements that explain the way that station and car park were / are run, its unfair to deny me this when I am trying to organise if I have a case. n So far it seems that no one has got through the glass ceiling, I have asked one CSR about escalation, he either did not understand what I said or was being dumb obstructive.

Maybe I will crash and burn - or maybe there is justice - please don't laugh when it goes wrong for me.

A lot depends on these factors:

- Is the land in question under statutory control, that is, is parking/stopping/loading controlled by means of any part/provision of the Road Traffic Act, a local council Order or the Railway Byelaws?

- Do APCOA know who the driver was?

- Is there any signage, and if so, what does it say and is it generally visible (not too high, at the entrance and throughout, reflective if at night, font reasonably sized)?

In many cases APCOA and their compatriot parking sharks try to enforce parking 'contracts' that occurred on land under statutory control. They do not have the right to do this and they have no right to obtain the Keeper's details or pursue the Keeper in this case. If this is the case, only a breach of Byelaws could be prosecuted, and this could only occur against the driver. Hence it is essential that APCOA/GWR do not find out who the driver is, if they do not already know.

 

[fowler9]

I understand your frustrations, and without knowledge of your case, I am not replying directly. However, I work as a Customer Service Manager so can answer some general points. Without revealing any trade secrets!

We get many people who believe good customer service is giving them what they want. Whereas this is not the case. Generally companies will treat everyone equally. So anyone else who had the same problem will get the same treatment.

If you email the MD (or any other director) it will just be passed to the customer service team. Don't think the person you emailed will actually read the email. Although most companies have a team who (amongst other things) deal with these emails, but they will search for other correspondence from you, and merge them all together. It may, or may not, get a faster response depending on work load.

If the thing you are complaining about is contracted out to another company (for example car parking) then the company it is contracted out to, will usually deal with all the complaints as part of their contract. So it is best to deal with them directly. If you feel the company who contracted it out were in some way to blame, put that in the complaint to the contract company, and they will investigate with the company directly. They will have a direct contact, and get a much faster response. If the actual company (rather than the contractor) were at fault, they will then respond directly to you.

No company necessarily has to have an escalation process, as the front line staff can do everything. Otherwise, everyone would have to be a manager, and that rather defeats the point. It is best to offer what you feel the solution should be, and that gives them something to work with. But make it reasonable. Ultimately, the company lawyers will decide what the outcome would be if it went to court, and that will decide what, if anything, is done.

In the crudest terms, the cost of a lost customer who is unhappy at an outcome, will be less that what the car park brings in, so that could be viewed as the price that has to be paid. By all means fight it, but I wouldn't let it cost you any money. If I had had a £1 for everyone who said "I'll see you in court" I wouldn't need to work! However, very very few actually do. And you can rest assured the company will not let it get to court if they are not confident of victory. We have recently been to court with an unhappy customer, and we won. But they were determined to go to court over it. Goodness knows what it cost them!

In your case, I would certainly be approaching the car park contractor.

Seriously mate, most sizeable companies will have an escalation process and I would be amazed if front line staff everywhere can do everything. If the frontline staff can do everything then no one would have to be a manager. Take where you work, can anyone refund any amount? Can anyone authorise a hotel for a customer if required? Can anyone authorise alternative transport for a customer? Where do you work?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Seriously mate, most sizeable companies will have an escalation process and I would be amazed if front line staff everywhere can do everything. If the frontline staff can do everything then no one would have to be a manager. Take where you work, can anyone refund any amount? Can anyone authorise a hotel for a customer if required? Can anyone authorise alternative transport for a customer? Where do you work?

It varies from company to company, but most companies want to keep costs as low as possible. Every customer contact is money, and a manager contact is even more money. If you are going to only enable managers to do things it costs a whole lot more money. Most companies permit front line staff to authorise anything reasonable, it is quicker and a whole load cheaper to do that. Sometimes the person will need to quickly speak with a manager whilst putting call on hold, but that is ok. There is rarely a need to speak to a manager, but some people will always want to, although I have no idea why. Bear in mind managers have a lot to do, and aren't sitting round just waiting for someone to escalate a call, so even if a manager does take a call, the original person will still deal with what needs doing afterwards. It is generally considered poor form in contact centre world for a manager to override the advisor, and that manager will have a manager to answer to.
Managers listen to their teams calls regularly so know what the advisors are like, obviously if wrong advice is given they will correct it and sort it out, but don't forget all calls are recorded. You will be amazed how many people still try it on "The advisor said..." when they said no such thing at all! We keep all calls too, many people think they get deleted so try it on after a few months, hoping it wont be recorded still.
The aim is to have no escalated calls, mainly due to cost, but the official line is that we want to resolve it at first point of contact.But if it did escalate then there is only one step escalation.
Emailing the CEO only means using a different email address, it will still end up in the main Customer Service Contact Centre with a response beginning "Thank you for emailing our Chairman, they have asked me to look at this and respond to you..."
Any good firm will deal it at first point, if the customer still isn't happy there is unlikely to be a change in company policy, so the answer is the same. But some people see good customer service as not stopping till they get the answer they want, but generally they get a "we treat all our customers fairly and equally" response. Meaning you had this problem, this is what we do to everyone with this problem. Few firms give more to those who shout louder.

 

[najaB]

With respect, there's a world of difference between:

No company necessarily has to have an escalation process, as the front line staff can do everything.

and:

Most companies permit front line staff to authorise anything reasonable, it is quicker and a whole load cheaper to do that.

 

[Deafdoggie]

OK should have been phrased clearer "Frontline staff can do everything a manager can"

 

[Hadders]

It varies from company to company, but most companies want to keep costs as low as possible. Every customer contact is money, and a manager contact is even more money. If you are going to only enable managers to do things it costs a whole lot more money. Most companies permit front line staff to authorise anything reasonable, it is quicker and a whole load cheaper to do that. Sometimes the person will need to quickly speak with a manager whilst putting call on hold, but that is ok. There is rarely a need to speak to a manager, but some people will always want to, although I have no idea why. Bear in mind managers have a lot to do, and aren't sitting round just waiting for someone to escalate a call, so even if a manager does take a call, the original person will still deal with what needs doing afterwards. It is generally considered poor form in contact centre world for a manager to override the advisor, and that manager will have a manager to answer to.
Managers listen to their teams calls regularly so know what the advisors are like, obviously if wrong advice is given they will correct it and sort it out, but don't forget all calls are recorded. You will be amazed how many people still try it on "The advisor said..." when they said no such thing at all! We keep all calls too, many people think they get deleted so try it on after a few months, hoping it wont be recorded still.
The aim is to have no escalated calls, mainly due to cost, but the official line is that we want to resolve it at first point of contact.But if it did escalate then there is only one step escalation.
Emailing the CEO only means using a different email address, it will still end up in the main Customer Service Contact Centre with a response beginning "Thank you for emailing our Chairman, they have asked me to look at this and respond to you..."
Any good firm will deal it at first point, if the customer still isn't happy there is unlikely to be a change in company policy, so the answer is the same. But some people see good customer service as not stopping till they get the answer they want, but generally they get a "we treat all our customers fairly and equally" response. Meaning you had this problem, this is what we do to everyone with this problem. Few firms give more to those who shout louder.

I'm sorry but this is just typical of the sort of customer service we see from many organisations these days. It's fine if the people manning the front line actually have the appropriate knowledge and behaviour to understand the issue but in many cases they don't, because large organisations just want to do thing on the cheap and fob customers off.

Take the railway for example. How many times do we hear tales of customers being told incorrect and misleading information by front line customer service staff. It's not the fault of the staff - it's because the companies want to do things on the cheap and fail to invest in making sure the staff have the correct knowledge. Customers on the end of incorrect information will naturally want to escalate it. With the railway it often ends up going round in circles until you eventually end up getting someone who actually understands the issue. Either that or customers give up and go away (which is probably what most organisations want).

 

[Clip]

In many cases APCOA and their compatriot parking sharks try to enforce parking 'contracts' that occurred on land under statutory control. They do not have the right to do this and they have no right to obtain the Keeper's details or pursue the Keeper in this case. If this is the case, only a breach of Byelaws could be prosecuted, and this could only occur against the driver. Hence it is essential that APCOA/GWR do not find out who the driver is, if they do not already know.

From memory of this its the registered keeper who is still liable under the byelaws. Please don't think this is the same as private car parks as TOCs can and do have ppcs act as their agents and they can use the bylaws to prosecute

 

[richw]

With respect, there's a world of difference between:

and:

OK should have been phrased clearer "Frontline staff can do everything a manager can"

The company I was formerly employed by, I was allowed to authorise up to £250, any more I had to ask my manager can I have authority for £xxxx. Manager quickly looks and yes or no, I had to justify my request to stand a chance.
I then raised a computer form which went to my manager by email, she then had to press a button to confirm she authorised it. It then went to the banking office for actioning. If within my mandate it went straight from me to the banking office. Managers were there to manage their teams not do the front line work.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Exactly! Many customers think the manager is there to overrule the staff, but they aren't, they are there to make sure the team is doing the job well. Most call centres pay the staff on performance related pay, not just calls answered, and short length, but quality too. It is no good doing loads of calls if the quality is poor! The number of calls a manager does in a week should be easily countable on one hand, otherwise there is a problem with the staff. there will always be customers who want to hear it from a manager before they believe it! There will always be those who still don't believe it then and want to tell the CEO. But every CEO is pretty busy running the company, and can't be hanging around on the off chance of a call coming through for them!

 

[fowler9]

It varies from company to company, but most companies want to keep costs as low as possible. Every customer contact is money, and a manager contact is even more money. If you are going to only enable managers to do things it costs a whole lot more money. Most companies permit front line staff to authorise anything reasonable, it is quicker and a whole load cheaper to do that. Sometimes the person will need to quickly speak with a manager whilst putting call on hold, but that is ok. There is rarely a need to speak to a manager, but some people will always want to, although I have no idea why. Bear in mind managers have a lot to do, and aren't sitting round just waiting for someone to escalate a call, so even if a manager does take a call, the original person will still deal with what needs doing afterwards. It is generally considered poor form in contact centre world for a manager to override the advisor, and that manager will have a manager to answer to.
Managers listen to their teams calls regularly so know what the advisors are like, obviously if wrong advice is given they will correct it and sort it out, but don't forget all calls are recorded. You will be amazed how many people still try it on "The advisor said..." when they said no such thing at all! We keep all calls too, many people think they get deleted so try it on after a few months, hoping it wont be recorded still.
The aim is to have no escalated calls, mainly due to cost, but the official line is that we want to resolve it at first point of contact.But if it did escalate then there is only one step escalation.
Emailing the CEO only means using a different email address, it will still end up in the main Customer Service Contact Centre with a response beginning "Thank you for emailing our Chairman, they have asked me to look at this and respond to you..."
Any good firm will deal it at first point, if the customer still isn't happy there is unlikely to be a change in company policy, so the answer is the same. But some people see good customer service as not stopping till they get the answer they want, but generally they get a "we treat all our customers fairly and equally" response. Meaning you had this problem, this is what we do to everyone with this problem. Few firms give more to those who shout louder.

I agree to an extent but there still will, in many organisations, be an escalation process for when a complainant has exhausted regular avenues, such as the OP appears to have done. I work as a complaint manager so I am aware of my companies procedures and they are pretty straightforward. As you say though it varies from company to company.

 

[richw]

Exactly! Many customers think the manager is there to overrule the staff, but they aren't, they are there to make sure the team is doing the job well. Most call centres pay the staff on performance related pay, not just calls answered, and short length, but quality too. It is no good doing loads of calls if the quality is poor! The number of calls a manager does in a week should be easily countable on one hand, otherwise there is a problem with the staff. there will always be customers who want to hear it from a manager before they believe it! There will always be those who still don't believe it then and want to tell the CEO. But every CEO is pretty busy running the company, and can't be hanging around on the off chance of a call coming through for them!

At my old employer everyone had the word manager in their title. Complaints manager, accounts manager, team manager. I was managing their account for that call so I was loosely their account manager. It made them think they’re talking to management, when really team manager or department manager were the hierarchy. “Sir I am your accounts manager” was the response to a request to speak to the manager. 95% went oh ok. 5% would still want hierarchy. Our team managers would always ask us full details when taking a transfer of what we’ve discussed and always back us unless we were wrong.

 

[sheff1]

Many customers think the manager is there to overrule the staff, but they aren't,

If the staff are wrong, I expect "the manager" to overrule them. Unfortunately, in my experience with the railway, the default position of most first line managers is to regurgitate the false 'rules' made up by the staff. On the, vary rare, occasions I have needed to talk to a manager elsewhere this default position has not been evident.

 

[fowler9]

If the staff are wrong, I expect "the manager" to overrule them. Unfortunately, in my experience with the railway, the default position of most first line managers is to regurgitate the false 'rules' made up by the staff. On the, vary rare, occasions I have needed to talk to a manager elsewhere this default position has not been evident.

Recently I have seen a lot more companies starting to call their team leaders team managers in customer services. In a lot of call centres team leaders/managers are just people who didn't bin the job off within 12 months. The pay is bad, the shifts are bad etc. etc.