Refusing to give address - what happens next ?

[philthetube]

I witnessed a similar scenario on a Hastings to London Charing Cross service. The guard asked a child who was traveling alone to show his ticket. The child said that he didn't have a ticket and had no money to buy one. The guard told the child to either pay for a ticket or get off at Frant the next station, or he would call the British Transport Police (BTP) to be ready for the child at Tunbridge Wells the station after Frant. The child didn't pay or get off at Frant. The guard came back to the child after leaving Frant and the child again refused to pay, and subsequently the guard called the BTP to be ready for the child at Tunbridge Wells. When we arrived at Tunbridge Wells the guard walked down the platform after opening the doors. The child sat in his seat for about 30 seconds after the doors opened and then walked off the train. I didn't see or hear any evidence after that point to indicate what happened with regards to the child.

Perfectly legit for the guard to tell the child that he would be met by BTP but very dodgy to tell a junior to leave the train at a strange location.

 

[MG11]

Revenue Protection Officers have access to data and can check addresses and names.

 

[skyhigh]

Revenue Protection Officers have access to data and can check addresses and names.

Fair enough, but useless if the passenger won't speak.

 

[Adlington]

Revenue Protection Officers have access to data and can check addresses and names.

Also of a child ?

 

[MG11]

Fair enough, but useless if the passenger won't speak.

Officers of the railway have the power to detain an individual until British Transport Police arrive, I recently saw a video of it being done on the Tyne And Wear Metro (I know that's not National Rail, before anyone says).

 

[MG11]

Also of a child ?

I'm not sure of that one, I imagine they will be trained on dealing with minors during their PACE course, so action can still be taken.

 

[MikeWh]

Revenue Protection Officers have access to data and can check addresses and names.

Also of a child ?

I'm not sure of that one, I imagine they will be trained on dealing with minors during their PACE course, so action can still be taken.

Minors will not be on the electoral roll until age 16 at the earliest.

 

[MG11]

Minors will not be on the electoral roll until age 16 at the earliest.

Would they be asked for their parent/carer's details then? I assume they would need an appropriate adult with them on being interviewed under caution?

Deleted.

 

[MikeWh]

Would they be asked for their parent/carer's details then? I assume they would need an appropriate adult with them on being interviewed under caution?

It is also worth noting that Penalty Fares cannot be issued to anyone under 16 years of age.

I don't know. Your username suggests a revenue protection background, so perhaps you know.

 

[furlong]

It is also worth noting that Penalty Fares cannot be issued to anyone under 16 years of age.

They most certainly can (under the SRA rules), but the child is not normally expected to pay anything on the spot and the notice can be made valid to their final destination rather than merely the next station.

 

[MG11]

They most certainly can, but the child is not normally expected to pay anything on the spot and the notice can be made valid to their final destination rather than merely the next station.

Thank you for clarifying, I have deleted as appropriate.

 

[MG11]

I don't know. Your username suggests a revenue protection background, so perhaps you know.

I've only been shortlisted and attended an assessment, I'm not railway staff, other than my volunteering at a heritage railway. I am very interested in Rev Pro though, hence my name.

 

[tsr]

There are alternative types of paperwork for miscellaneous irregularities, which can include minors travelling without tickets if need be. The main one of these is the bog standard Travel Irregularity Report or TIR, which can be filled in by virtually any onboard staff with revenue enforcement capabilities, and which will then be investigated by specialist staff following the report being turned in at the end of duty. Combined with CCTV details and existing intel, action may be able to be taken.

The electoral roll is also not the only avenue which can be used to check identity, though it would be used to compare a specific name with a specific address.

If someone who is obviously a child is also committing any form of serious fraud or longer distance faredodging, questions about the child's safety and wellbeing may come into play (doing this regularly will do them no favours, and may imply involvement with other criminal activities or a need for assistance before this happens), and you would probably want to be contacting BTP et al, in any case. This would apply whether or not you could detain the person involved.

 

[Antman]

Not sure if this is the right section, but here goes ...

Yesterday, I was travelling from Maidstone to St Pancras via Strood. Sitting in the rear carriage I overheard the guard talking to someone he apparently knew about a passenger who had boarded the train and refused to buy a ticket. He had told the person to alight at Yalding (I think) but they had just walked up the platform and got on via the next door. The guard said that he could not delay the train but had sent an email reporting the situation and asked for Revenue people to attend, but he didn't hold out much hope. To the guard's surprise, 3 Railway Enforcement Officers dressed in police style clothing were waiting on the platform at Cuxton and were directed to the miscreant.

At Strood the 3 RFOs surrounded the person whilst they got off the train and then on the platform. Walking past it was clear the person had refused to give an address and his demeanour suggested he had absolutely no intention of ever doing so. As I boarded the train to St Pancras, the Mexican standoff was continuing at the top of the station steps.

Obviously, the RFOs could not stand there indefinitely yet the passenger seemed quite content to wait indefinitely - he was perfectly calm and showed no aggressive tendencies.

In reality, what would happen with the continued refusal to give an address ? Would the RFOs give up, call the police or what ? If the police were called, would they actually turn up ?

Any insight welcome. Don't worry, I do not intend to put this strategy into practice - there are far better things to do than stand on a station platform for hours !

It wouldn't have been Yalding as that's in the opposite direction from Maidstone West.

I've seen many similar situations, all they can do is call police and tell the fare dodger that they are on CCTV etc.

 

[EM2]

More likely to be Halling.

 

[Ediswan]

I did try to quote from tspaul26, but something went wrong, so manually...

"A civilian may conduct an arrest in these circumstances only if:"

The wording of the act is "A person other than a constable". Civil police are themselves civilians.