Avantix replacement (previously: Arriva ditch Avantix)

[island]

I don't see the latter as likely to change – the volume of tickets issued would be too high for gateline attendants to let people through manually and TfL has no incentive to fit its ticket gates with barcode scanners and the necessary tech to validate tickets.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I don't see the latter as likely to change – the volume of tickets issued would be too high for gateline attendants to let people through manually and TfL has no incentive to fit its ticket gates with barcode scanners and the necessary tech to validate tickets.

So basically TfL are refusing to accept perfectly valid tickets because of the medium they are being presented in

Surely they're creating a consumer rights issue.

 

[Haywain]

As far as TfL are concerned they are not valid in that form, and the TOCs accept this by not issuing tickets on PRT that would not be accepted by TfL.

 

[Brucey]

When ATB tickets (the larger size that resemble Eurostar or airline boarding passes) were around, I remember credit card sized "gate passes" being issued for LUL transfers. The ticket was encoded to permit one journey only.

Could ticket sellers be issued with packs of these pre-printed allowing a single journey on any date (they don't exactly have to be thick card, just something with a mag stripe) to issue to customers buying cross-London tickets?

Edited to add: this is an image of what I was thinking of: http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/tra...-Torquay-to-Norbiton-London-England-1-DHD.jpg

 

[Starmill]

They could do but it would seem a bit futile. The current solution is, I think, just to ask the customer to purchase the ticket at their interchange station, from another onboard member of staff who can issue tickets on credit card sized stock, or when they arrive at their London Terminal - with the exception of Virgin Trains East Coast who have developed a custom solution.

Example: passenger joins a train at Styal and the guard comes to sell them a ticket. They ask for a return to Sevenoaks but as this requires a cross-London journey the guard says that they can't sell it and asks them to speak to the staff at Crewe to buy a ticket. If there isn't enough time at Crewe (for example, because of a late arrival or a tight connection onto the London train) the passenger would be advised to purchase the ticket from the guard on the Virgin Trains service. If they aren't able to sell tickets for whatever reason (they might be busy or have a broken machine for example) the customer buys their ticket from the London Euston ticket office.

 

[Brucey]

with the exception of Virgin Trains East Coast who have developed a custom solution

What is the custom solution used by VTEC?

 

[91103eastcoast]

What is the custom solution used by VTEC?

VTEC to my knowledge issue a code that allows the passenger to pick up the ticket from a TVM

 

[Haywain]

VTEC to my knowledge issue a code that allows the passenger to pick up the ticket from a TVM

That's correct, the ticket is issued to ToD collection.

 

[island]

So basically TfL are refusing to accept perfectly valid tickets because of the medium they are being presented in

Surely they're creating a consumer rights issue.

They aren’t doing any such thing.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Why can’t they just issue normal paper tickets... I really don’t see the advantage of this new barcoded system. Yes it might be all the range in the future but surely printers and the software can be changed to allow this...

 

[island]

The cost of hardware and ticket stock to issue credit card size tickets (CCST) with an encoded magnetic stripe is considerably higher than paper roll tickets (PRT). For TOCs such as VTEC which serve (almost) exclusively large staffed stations and whose guards are rarely called upon to sell on board a ticket with cross-London validity, it makes absolute sense to choose the lower price option.

 

[Haywain]

And the guards very much appreciate carrying a smaller, lighter printer around with them.

 

[philthetube]

So basically TfL are refusing to accept perfectly valid tickets because of the medium they are being presented in

Surely they're creating a consumer rights issue.

No, TFL are refusing to spend tens of thousands on new gateline equipment in order to allow northern and others to save a few thousand buying cheaper equipment.

 

[plymothian]

The GWR cross London work-around was meant to be launched today, but no confirmation actually it has yet; TfL inclusive tickets can now be sold on PRT printers, but the ticket must be exchanged for a CCST before use on TfL services.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Envoy had an update recently which added a Ticket on Demand collection function for use during disruption of facilities at stations. Having used it for some revenue protection to check a booking actually exists I think it has a lot of potential. I've also issued a few to passengers who would otherwise have missed their connection or would have had to run and they've been immensely grateful. Its one of the first things I've been really pleased to have at my disposal!

 

[plymothian]

Envoy had an update recently which added a Ticket on Demand collection function for use during disruption of facilities at stations. Having used it for some revenue protection to check a booking actually exists I think it has a lot of potential. I've also issued a few to passengers who would otherwise have missed their connection or would have had to run and they've been immensely grateful. Its one of the first things I've been really pleased to have at my disposal!

That was one of the things promised with STARmobile but not yet delivered and will be great when eventually added as ToD fraud is increasing.

And the "GWR solution" has gone live today.

 

[bunnahabhain]

That was one of the things promised with STARmobile but not yet delivered and will be great when eventually added as ToD fraud is increasing.

And the "GWR solution" has gone live today.

It's an excellent tool, and one that won't be advertised so as to prevent the "It's okay I can get it on the train" evaders.

 

[father_jack]

Batteries are swelling up and catching fire on GWR machines !!!!

 

[pompeyfan]

Envoy had an update recently which added a Ticket on Demand collection function for use during disruption of facilities at stations. Having used it for some revenue protection to check a booking actually exists I think it has a lot of potential. I've also issued a few to passengers who would otherwise have missed their connection or would have had to run and they've been immensely grateful. Its one of the first things I've been really pleased to have at my disposal!

I think it’s only gone live on some TOCs, I’d assume you work for Southern?

 

[bunnahabhain]

I think it’s only gone live on some TOCs, I’d assume you work for Southern?

Nope, it could well be we're trialling it, we're the trial TOC for the handheld m-ticket scanners too.

 

[pompeyfan]

My local TOC have just activated the smart card reader function of the S6 on Envoy, and I’m aware that southern can print out TODs now after watching one conductor do it.

 

[HowardGWR]

That was one of the things promised with STARmobile but not yet delivered and will be great when eventually added as ToD fraud is increasing.

And the "GWR solution" has gone live today.

What is ToD fraud? Could you (anyone) give an example please?

 

[pompeyfan]

I would guess it’s trying it on by relying on the good nature of a guard...

‘Sorry I didn’t have time to collect my ticket, the bus was late, the dog ate the card, etc etc etc but I’ll collect it at the destination station’

 

[tsr]

My local TOC have just activated the smart card reader function of the S6 on Envoy, and I’m aware that southern can print out TODs now after watching one conductor do it.

The TOD function on the Southern Envoy system is probably the best of all of the current features of the system. Unfortunately a lot of the rest of it is still utterly terrible.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I would guess it’s trying it on by relying on the good nature of a guard...

‘Sorry I didn’t have time to collect my ticket, the bus was late, the dog ate the card, etc etc etc but I’ll collect it at the destination station’

Thats the one, a mate took £750 off a group who had booked them, received the email containing the reference code, and then promptly cancelled them. Relying on the guard saying "Nae bother" instead of "No worries, give me the code and I'll print them".

 

[HowardGWR]

I see, so the perps claim to have bought tickets online but something prevented them making the collection. I only tried this collection idea once; never again. When got to the machine there was a queue of people in front of me who had not a clue how to use the TVM. I only caught my train by somewhat brutally asking, pleading, to precede them.
I suppose you have to be patient as conductor, because sometimes, the punter could be telling the truth. Still, those people will have the code won't they?

 

[pompeyfan]

I see, so the perps claim to have bought tickets online but something prevented them making the collection. I only tried this collection idea once; never again. When got to the machine there was a queue of people in front of me who had not a clue how to use the TVM. I only caught my train by somewhat brutally asking, pleading, to precede them.
I suppose you have to be patient as conductor, because sometimes, the punter could be telling the truth. Still, those people will have the code won't they?

The ones that are potentially trying it on will show a reference number for an online retailer, usually trainline, perhaps even from the app. I would also imagine there has been many cases of people screenshotting an email and sending it around to their mates, potentially even doctoring the screenshot.

Megatrain on the southwestern was rife with fraud as some managed to decipher the booking reference code and just keep making their own references. I saw a megatrain reference presented in October, and when the choice of the police with a charge of fraud, or buying an anytime single was offered, they quickly took the 2nd.

@tsr im surprised you’re still not keen on envoy now the system has settled down. Certainly I can’t see any issues other than the printer which can sometimes be temperamental.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The hardware is still somewhat hit and miss, however the latest software update has made the printer somewhat faster. I still get fed up of a duff set of card stock and/or printer so every other ticket is a blank.