Oxford Circus station closed 24/11

[telstarbox]

I was entering Bond St station just after 1630 when I saw a flood of people coming down one of the entrances - some ended up forcing the barriers to get away from the street.

It was exceptionally busy out there yesterday afternoon with the Black Friday crowds so it's understandable that the panic spread quickly.

Comparisons with the IRA era are not necessarily helpful as they didn't tend to use guns and also tended to phone in codewords.

 

[gavin]

2 men interviewed by police following yesterday's incident

@BTP
We appealed for information following an incident at Oxford Circus yesterday. Since the appeal two men, aged 21 and 40, attended a police station voluntarily and were interviewed. Thank you to everyone who helped to share the appeal. The investigation continues.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the difference today, in light of recent experience, is that people will assume the threat is a marauding gun attack, +\- suicide bombers, rather than a time bomb in a fixed location.

You therefore can’t blame people for panicking/rushing to extracate themselves from the situation.

I’d certainly hot foot it if I was in Oxford Circus and heard reports of an unfolding attack.

Also in the days of the IRA a warning was usually given by coded phone call so the police would be the first to know that something was likely to happen and where. The IRA generally wanted to cause confusion rather than actual harm to civilians, although of course it didn't always work out that way. These days the first indication of any incident may be when the shooting starts.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No evidence of gunshots anywhere on station, but was relayed to station staff by customers.

Is it possible that the passengers heard some normal loud bangs caused by the trains, for example if circuit breakers briefly tripped while a train was taking power? The 1972 Stock on the Bakerloo Line do this very frequently.

As both Oxford Circus and Bond Street were involved, I assume it was the Central Line platforms that were involved, however?

 

[Mojo]

As both Oxford Circus and Bond Street were involved, I assume it was the Central Line platforms that were involved, however?

It was, however don’t forget that Oxford Circus is exceptionally busy, so the closures of Bond St primarily related to prevention of overcrowding rather than anything else.

Also see Olly Murs tweeting about gunfire in Selfridges, to the west of Bond St (ie. the other direction from Oxford Circus).

 

[bramling]

Is it possible that the passengers heard some normal loud bangs caused by the trains, for example if circuit breakers briefly tripped while a train was taking power? The 1972 Stock on the Bakerloo Line do this very frequently.

As both Oxford Circus and Bond Street were involved, I assume it was the Central Line platforms that were involved, however?

IIRC it started on one of the Central Line platforms. Still not inconceivable for a train to make a noise though.

 

[hassaanhc]

Around the same time the Jubilee line suffered severe delays due to a faulty train out at Neasden, which resulted in trains being held at stations for several minutes and sometimes ending up stopped in tunnels for that length of time. Really felt worrying given the events at Bond Street and Oxford Circus, the severity of which was unknown at the time. I was travelling from Canning Town to Waterloo, and nearly left at North Greenwich to take a bus to Charlton for SE, but the doors closed as I was about to get up (even then I had enough at Southwark and walked to Waterloo NR via Waterloo East, would have been SE from London Bridge if we'd waited there).

 

[Busaholic]

In 2006 224 people were killed and around 450 injured in a stampede in India caused by 'rumours of a bomb'. Saudi Arabia has also been home to stampedes causing mass casualties, The point I was making, which may have been misinterpreted by some, is that panic in the form of shouting and rushing is very likely to produce casualties too, even in the event that there was something genuine in the first place which may have caused casualties. Really, it would be hard to think of a worse place on the transport system for rumours of carnage to spread than Oxford Circus tube at the beginning of the p.m. peak.

 

[Busaholic]

Also in the days of the IRA a warning was usually given by coded phone call so the police would be the first to know that something was likely to happen and where. The IRA generally wanted to cause confusion rather than actual harm to civilians, although of course it didn't always work out that way. These days the first indication of any incident may be when the shooting starts.

I remember the following IRA bombs in London , two of which I heard go off and a third which I was about 200 yards from but didn't hear, none of which I believe had any form of warning attached:- Old Bailey, Euston, King's Cross, Greenwich gasworks, near New Scotland Yard (unexploded- I was working round the corner at 55 Broadway), Plaistow/West Ham on the Met line, Aldwych bus bomb. Charing Cross Road wastepaper bin, Hyde Park, probably more which don't come to mind. plus shootings at Scott's restaurant, the siege of Spaghetti House in Knightsbridge, etc. Yes, later on there were warnings at Bishopsgate and Canary Wharf (I think- not entirely sure about the latter, and there were casualties) but the aim in the 70s was to create fear and they knew the best way was to kill a number of civilians in the capital.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

IIRC it started on one of the Central Line platforms. Still not inconceivable for a train to make a noise though.

I wonder... if some inexperienced passengers reported the routine "loud bangs" on the Bakerloo platform to a member of staff at the same time as the fight was happening on the Central Line, and both reports reached the control people at the same time... Would that theory work as a trigger for the misunderstandings?

 

[bramling]

I wonder... if some inexperienced passengers reported the routine "loud bangs" on the Bakerloo platform to a member of staff at the same time as the fight was happening on the Central Line, and both reports reached the control people at the same time... Would that theory work as a trigger for the misunderstandings?

It’s as good a theory as ever, although purely circumstantial of course.

Unfortunately I think this sort of thing will become more common, sadly understandably so. The difficulty with active shooter and bladed weapon threats is that the best course of action is likely to be to get as far away as possible, as quickly as possible. Just another thing we have to live with, sadly.

 

[jon0844]

It’s as good a theory as ever, although purely circumstantial of course.

Unfortunately I think this sort of thing will become more common, sadly understandably so. The difficulty with active shooter and bladed weapon threats is that the best course of action is likely to be to get as far away as possible, as quickly as possible. Just another thing we have to live with, sadly.

"If you see something that doesn't look right, shout 'gun' and post on Twitter."

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It’s as good a theory as ever, although purely circumstantial of course.

Unfortunately I think this sort of thing will become more common, sadly understandably so. The difficulty with active shooter and bladed weapon threats is that the best course of action is likely to be to get as far away as possible, as quickly as possible. Just another thing we have to live with, sadly.

Agreed, but I would suggest it is important to establish the cause of the false reporting in order to be better informed operationally should anything similar happen again. Quite simply a basic fight between two people should not end up with half the West End being paralysed - especially as it drew police cover away from other areas.

 

[jon0844]

Agreed, but I would suggest it is important to establish the cause of the false reporting in order to be better informed operationally should anything similar happen again. Quite simply a basic fight between two people should not end up with half the West End being paralysed - especially as it drew police cover away from other areas.

And the risk being that next time someone reporting something won't be taken seriously. Indeed the 'see it, say it' message can now be undermined unless police say they still want to be called.

Tricky.

 

[Lrd]

Agreed, but I would suggest it is important to establish the cause of the false reporting in order to be better informed operationally should anything similar happen again. Quite simply a basic fight between two people should not end up with half the West End being paralysed - especially as it drew police cover away from other areas.

Two people have handed themselves in to police relating to the incident at Oxford Circus so unfortunately I don't think there is much more to it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think my point may not have been clear; what is obvious is that reports got completely confused somewhere which gave rise to the "attack that never was" ( to quote the media ). Learning what exactly happened with the messages being passed on that led to the confusion would help with responding in future, to both a real attack and in terms of avoiding misunderstandings when there is no attack.

 

[Wirewiper]

Learning what exactly happened

Olly Murs and 7.8m followers on Twitter is what happened. The ability to tweet and re-tweet to all your followers instantly on Twitter is a particularly effective way of spreading misinformation and panic, even if it is not done intentionally. Especially if you are a celebrity and have millions of people following you.

The situation was not helped by all the hype around "Black Friday" bringing thousands more people into the area than would have been there normally.

 

[Lrd]

Olly Murs and 7.8m followers on Twitter is what happened. The ability to tweet and re-tweet to all your followers instantly on Twitter is a particularly effective way of spreading misinformation and panic, even if it is not done intentionally. Especially if you are a celebrity and have millions of people following you.

The situation was not helped by all the hype around "Black Friday" bringing thousands more people into the area than would have been there normally.

Yep that and the Daily Mail telling everyone their had been gun shots and a lorry plough into pedestrians when they had zero evidence of either happening.

 

[Busaholic]

Yep that and the Daily Mail telling everyone their had been gun shots and a lorry plough into pedestrians when they had zero evidence of either happening.

Has President Trump not had anything salient to say on this yet? And if not, why not? Fake news at its most inglorious.

 

[jon0844]

Has President Trump not had anything salient to say on this yet? And if not, why not? Fake news at its most inglorious.

I don't think he had time to, as it was quickly deemed a non-event. That said, social media had a number of what must have been American Trump supporters, or Russian 'bots' talking about an incident in Oxford. There were quickly jokes about Trump potentially thinking it was about a circus in Oxford, so it was quite sad that we never actually saw that.