VTWC Facing Industrial Action By On-Board Staff

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yet another RMT strike is on the cards:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42014208

RMT members working on Virgin West Coast have voted 9-1 to take action, including strike action, over pay.
The union said nearly 1,800 workers including train managers and on-board catering workers on the West Coast route from Glasgow to Euston took part.
The RMT said it wanted a "suitable and equal" pay offer to the £500 one given to drivers.

A Virgin Trains spokesman said they hoped to be able to run most services throughout any industrial action.
The firm said: "We are disappointed by the result of the RMT's ballot, but can reassure customers that we will be able to run the majority of services during any industrial action.
"We have offered a 3.2% annual pay increase at a time when the average increase across public and private sector employees is around 2%. We remain open to continuing talks with the RMT".

 

[mpthomson]

Another one not likely to play well with the public I suspect.

 

[Kite159]

10p on the first strike getting announced as being the same day(s) as on Northern/GA/SWR/Merseyrail/Southern/XC to try and maximise the impact?
15p on rail workers getting reclassified as "essential" and losing the ability to strike?

 

[tommy2215]

So RMT keep emphasizing that their strikes are strikes for protection and not about pay, they heavily criticize ASLEF for the big pay rise in their deal with Southern, yet all of a sudden now RMT say we must strike over pay? That's seems a bit hypocritical.

 

[SamYeager]

10p on the first strike getting announced as being the same day(s) as on Northern/GA/SWR/Merseyrail/Southern/XC to try and maximise the impact?
15p on rail workers getting reclassified as "essential" and losing the ability to strike?

The first wouldn't surprise me. The second is unlikely as the government has enough problems on its plate.

Another one not likely to play well with the public I suspect.

That's a pretty safe bet. The recent ASLEF settlement where "safety" seems suddenly not to be such an issue once sufficient dosh is provided won't help matters.

 

[Darandio]

Another one not likely to play well with the public I suspect.

I imagine that any action will not go down well with the public now, regardless of the reasons. People are just sick of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine that any action will not go down well with the public now, regardless of the reasons. People are just sick of it.

Particularly as people in other (non-unionised) industries are seeing far, far worse changes and sucking them up as the choice is accept or lose your job.

That isn't OK, but it is a fact.

 

[DarloRich]

Particularly as people in other (non-unionised) industries are seeing far, far worse changes and sucking them up as the choice is accept or lose your job.

That isn't OK, but it is a fact.

there is a clue why in your statement. Race to the bottom?

 

[Deafdoggie]

The other problem is, if the trains still run, the public are like "why do we need these staff at all then? sack them, and reduce the fares" whilst it may not be that simple, the public perception is that simple! If they are not careful rail staff will strike themselves out of jobs. The public wont wear much more. More passengers are leaving Southern, they will find alternatives for other operators. Passenger numbers down, staff have to go down too

 

[Nean]

Also, what's the RMT membership (and therefore turnout) on VTWC? 1800 people seems like a lot but there's no turnout figure listed which is slightly odd!

 

[thealexweb]

The other day inflation was confirmed to still be at 3.0%. How can the unions justify above inflation / average earning pay increases when its the public / taxpayers that will be paying for it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

there is a clue why in your statement. Race to the bottom?

I know, and I think it's a bad thing - but most people tend to just compare rail staff's position with their own, and on noticing that the rail staff are better off than them tend to lose sympathy.

The DOO debate is different because many people oppose it for personal safety reasons, i.e. not wanting to be on a train with no member of staff to help them if someone starts hassling them (or worse), or to provide accessibility assistance if they require it. (They don't actually care who does the doors etc - just that there is always someone there to help them).

Sympathy over pay and conditions is *far* reduced because rail staff have better pay and conditions than vast swathes of the country.

 

[DarloRich]

Sympathy over pay and conditions is *far* reduced because rail staff have better pay and conditions than vast swathes of the country.

Because the railway workers were prepared to do something about it. MORE people should do that yet the Tories have ensured that jealousy used to generate anger, personal impotence and fear is the currency of the modern world. It is sad that people cant see that and wont do something about it.

Anyway - this issue should be sorted out by sitting down and talking things out like adults. Is the same offer for all grades not a fair approach?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Because the railway workers were prepared to do something about it. MORE people should do that yet the Tories have ensured that jealousy used to generate anger, personal impotence and fear is the currency of the modern world. It is sad that people cant see that and wont do something about it

But lots of people simply can't do that

 

[Agent_Squash]

Really? If these strikes are timed for the same day, it's now damaging even more journeys. My sympathy for the RMT just keeps draining, as if I'm lucky enough to be travelling on a strike day, my entire journey from South Cumbria to the West Coastway will be disrupted.

 

[DarloRich]

But lots of people simply can't do that

Who is to blame for that?

 

[HH]

So this would be both on board and some station staff (although they don't have that many)? Is this a much delayed rise dating back to May, so would be based on April RPI when it was 3.5%? I imagine a below RPI offer wouldn't go down well with staff, even though that's better than most are getting. There haven't been many below RPI settlements that I can remember, even when we were deep in recesssion.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Who is to blame for that?

It is just the way things are. The whole "blame game" culture is probably to blame! No one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. It has to be someone-anyone-else's fault.

 

[221129]

Really? If these strikes are timed for the same day, it's now damaging even more journeys. My sympathy for the RMT just keeps draining, as if I'm lucky enough to be travelling on a strike day, my entire journey from South Cumbria to the West Coastway will be disrupted.

Is that not the point...

 

[DarloRich]

It is just the way things are. The whole "blame game" culture is probably to blame! No one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. It has to be someone-anyone-else's fault.

No: it is the way it is because people agreed to give up their rights or didn't fight hard enough to protect them. The government wants you to complain about those who do have some protection so that protection can be removed. They don't want you asking why you have no protection.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Is that not the point...

I'm sure it is. But when many people in the industry are already receiving pay rises above the national average, the public view is that all they want is more money. I'm sure many people who have heard the GTR/ASLEF dispute resolution have lost all sympathy as it proved that there surely must be no safety case.

I think that there should be staff on the train, and they deserve good pay. However, striking over already higher than RPI pay rises is silly.

 

[Goldfish62]

Passenger numbers are down on many TOCs, with SWT/SWR showing the biggest fall.

I've think we've the best of the railways and are entering a new period of decline.

 

[Clip]

Anyway - this issue should be sorted out by sitting down and talking things out like adults. Is the same offer for all grades not a fair approach?

Is 3.2% raise over all grades not a fair approach or amount which is what they have declined?

With virgin drivers on circa 50k per year then the £500 they got given is far worse percentage wise that what these other grades have been offered is it not so if they want the same then they can have the 1% pay rise yes?

 

[Dave1987]

I know, and I think it's a bad thing - but most people tend to just compare rail staff's position with their own, and on noticing that the rail staff are better off than them tend to lose sympathy.

The DOO debate is different because many people oppose it for personal safety reasons, i.e. not wanting to be on a train with no member of staff to help them if someone starts hassling them (or worse), or to provide accessibility assistance if they require it. (They don't actually care who does the doors etc - just that there is always someone there to help them).

Sympathy over pay and conditions is *far* reduced because rail staff have better pay and conditions than vast swathes of the country.

The Government is facing a massive problem now arguably of their own creation. They have been telling people that they should be glad to have a job and a wage packet for a while now. This has created a sense that no one should fight for higher wage increases and anyone who is offered an above inflation rise is considered very very lucky. Well people in the UK people are gradually becoming poorer and poorer as measly wage increases are outstripped by inflation constantly. It’s really starting to bite now. Criticising people for actually fighting for a decent wage rise is only extenuating the problem even further. More people should be fighting for wage increases and the Government should be backing them.

 

[Starmill]

Excuse me people have not given up their rights, and in most cases have fought fiercely to defend them. This includes huge numbers of people I know who are Unison or PCS union members and even my own mother. It particularly affects people working in education and health but it's across the public sector. I know people who do skilled jobs working with children which are vital to the safe and successful running of schools who've been insulted for 7 years by a pay freeze and then a series of 1% pay rises. This is a big issue at elections, the Labour Party and others have promised to end it and people have done everything they can in support of their union and their careers in many cases. These people still have not had a pay rise. Whose fault is that? Personally I'd argue it's the fault of the Conservative party and their supporters. However, that is going off topic.

 

[northwichcat]

15p on rail workers getting reclassified as "essential" and losing the ability to strike?

Wouldn't it be ironic if that happened to 'safety critical' guards but not to 'non-safety critical' CSAs?

 

[misterredmist]

No: it is the way it is because people agreed to give up their rights or didn't fight hard enough to protect them. The government wants you to complain about those who do have some protection so that protection can be removed. They don't want you asking why you have no protection.

I don't think it's that simple, a lot of people are too exposed to being expendable in their jobs, easily replaced, and are frightened of 'rocking the boat' as they rely on their living so much they cannot take that risk. They are not part of massive ever present, traditionally strong unionised and growing concern like the railway. I think in the modern employment world, not only did a lot of people give up their rights many years ago, but many current jobs never had any rights or protections in the first place........

 

[dk1]

Thought Virgin would just pay them the £500 same as their drivers & avoid the bad press.

 

[northwichcat]

Thought Virgin would just pay them the £500 same as their drivers & avoid the bad press.

Would that annoy ASLEF? If £500 equaled a 1.25% increase for drivers but it equals 2.5% for train managers, then they'd be effectively offering a much bigger pay rise to RMT members.

 

[SPADTrap]

Particularly as people in other (non-unionised) industries are seeing far, far worse changes and sucking them up as the choice is accept or lose your job.

That isn't OK, but it is a fact.

And those non-unionised workers being forced into accepting anything or face losing their jobs are directing their anger at the wrong people! I wonder why..I really can't think why..the newspaper they read, perhaps?