Buses in Oxford and Cambridge

[Samuel88]

Both cities have a large university population and are a similar size so why is Oxford's bus network so good while Cambridge's so bad? You could be waiting at 9 PM on a Sunday in Oxford and not have to wait 10 minutes for a bus but in Cambridge you're lucky to see a bus much past the early evening!

 

[Busaholic]

I'm not personally familiar with either city, but Oxford has two bus companies that have long competed with each other to an extent and seem to co-exist reasonably harmoniously whereas Cambridge has one predominant operator. Does Oxford also have more working class estates with lower levels of car ownership than Cambridge?

 

[Stan Drews]

There is quite a significant variance between the local authorities in the two cities, and their respective attitudes to buses.
I'll let you work out which one is more pro-bus!

 

[A0]

There is quite a significant variance between the local authorities in the two cities, and their respective attitudes to buses.
I'll let you work out which one is more pro-bus!

Not true.

Both are anti-car and routinely rip off motorists for parking in an attempt to get people to use the buses.

I avoid both of them for precisely that reason - I don't want to travel 50 miles to have to do the final 5 miles on a bus thanks, particularly on a leisure trip.

The geography of the two cities is quite different though as a quick look at an OS map shows - Cambridge is more densely packed with a shorter distance from the centre to the edge whereas Oxford is much more spread out - estates like Blackbird Leys are much further out.

The busway has a sensible frequency into the evening and that covers the key routes north to south in Cambridge.

 

[ChathillMan]

As stated in a post above, Cambridge is quite dense. Most student halls are within walking distance of the city. So no need for loads of buses. The ones to the estates still operate on a Sunday and until midnight.

 

[carlberry]

Not true.

Both are anti-car and routinely rip off motorists for parking in an attempt to get people to use the buses.

I avoid both of them for precisely that reason - I don't want to travel 50 miles to have to do the final 5 miles on a bus thanks, particularly on a leisure trip.

How is that anti-car? Cars are allowed to drive into and out of both cities and park all over the place. In both places it's possible to park within a fairly short distance of the city centre and not have to pay anything and there's plenty of places to park and pay in both (given the amount of space available). Oxford has even done several things recently that discourage bus use; closing roads for example or applying strict rules on bus exhausts that don't apply to cars or (especially) taxis.

 

[higthomas]

I think Oxford is helped by the layout of the city. Most places are reached along one of about 5 main arterial roads, meaning the buses are very direct and quick, meaning it is much cheaper and more attractive to run.
Students don't really play much of a part of it I think. In Oxford not Oxford students use the buses, and the Brookes ones mostly only use Brookes bus. In Oxford, especially at night, people just seem to move around a lot more.

 

[PeterC]

Not true.

Both are anti-car and routinely rip off motorists for parking in an attempt to get people to use the buses.

I avoid both of them for precisely that reason - I don't want to travel 50 miles to have to do the final 5 miles on a bus thanks, particularly on a leisure trip.

On the other hand I am much happier knowing that I can park easily at Thornhill and taking a very comfortable bus rather than touring the city centre looking for a space.

 

[cactustwirly]

Does Oxford also have more working class estates with lower levels of car ownership than Cambridge?

No, Oxford is quite an affluent city

 

[Stan Drews]

Not true.

Both are anti-car and routinely rip off motorists for parking in an attempt to get people to use the buses.

I avoid both of them for precisely that reason - I don't want to travel 50 miles to have to do the final 5 miles on a bus thanks, particularly on a leisure trip.

The geography of the two cities is quite different though as a quick look at an OS map shows - Cambridge is more densely packed with a shorter distance from the centre to the edge whereas Oxford is much more spread out - estates like Blackbird Leys are much further out.

The busway has a sensible frequency into the evening and that covers the key routes north to south in Cambridge.

Just because both may be 'anti-car', doesn't correlate to both being pro-bus, as you seem to be assuming. I stand by my comment that there is a marked difference between the local authorities, and how they work with bus operators ...or not!

 

[higthomas]

No, Oxford is quite an affluent city

This is something people commonly say, because yes, a lot of people are. But if you have a look here you will see that this hides the fact that for a lot of the city this isn't true. There are large areas of deprivation, not helped by the fact the house prices are through the roof.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

...but Oxford has two bus companies that have long competed with each other to an extent and seem to co-exist reasonably harmoniously whereas Cambridge has one predominant operator.

Maybe it would be an advantage if Whippets were to breed.

 

[Ianno87]

Maybe it would be an advantage if Whippets were to breed.

Whippets have recently retrenched quite significantly on their commercially operated network. If they did try and actively compete with Stagecoach, they'd just be crushed.

Cambridge is probably more pro-cycling than Oxford is (although Oxford is still pretty pro-it too). Cycling is the de-facto method for short trips in Cambridge amongst all walks of life, so probably takes alot of the natural bus market. Buses also aren't convenient for some parts of the city too, whereas bikes can penetrate much better.

Buses in Cambridge are also prone to getting caught in congestion, and (I feel) too expensive due to lack of competition (taxis are also pretty expensive). Standard Adult single in the city boundary is c. £2.70, and about £4.50 for a Dayrider. Unusually, family tickets only permit one adult in the group, so a trip to town and back for 2 adults 2 children is approaching £16, even within tbe city!

 

[Ianno87]

Again, few students in Cambridge need to use buses as part of their daily routine to get to lectures, so something that forms part of the market in Oxford does not do so in Cambridge.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I was in Oxford last week and honestly the standard of marketing of their services and bus presentation and the liveries were really nice with very modern fleets in general and not an old bus to be found.

Although for me it was strange that the most knackered buses in the city were for sure the Stagecoach Gold Enviro 400s, they looked really well battered, steamed up windows, dingy not working lights and well worn, they looked nothing like a premium experience and were the oldest deckers I saw in the whole city!

 

[Wirewiper]

Cambridge also has a smaller population, 124,000 as opposed to Oxford's 150,000. Although that doesn't in itself explain the discrepancy in bus provision (other factors have already been mentioned), it must be a factor.

 

[radamfi]

One major difference is that Transit Holdings ran in Oxford but not Cambridge. Unlike most places in Britain, bus usage in Oxford boomed from deregulation thanks to the very frequent and innovative services run by Thames Transit, which had to be responded to by Oxford Bus Company. Cambus was by comparison running a typical mediocre service. So by the time Stagecoach took over, Oxford already had a huge head start.

 

[PeterC]

I was in Oxford last week and honestly the standard of marketing of their services and bus presentation and the liveries were really nice with very modern fleets in general and not an old bus to be found.

Although for me it was strange that the most knackered buses in the city were for sure the Stagecoach Gold Enviro 400s, they looked really well battered, steamed up windows, dingy not working lights and well worn, they looked nothing like a premium experience and were the oldest deckers I saw in the whole city!

With GoAhead the system seems to be that the new buses go to COMS and after they have had a bit of wear they go to Carousel in Wycombe.

 

[carlberry]

With GoAhead the system seems to be that the new buses go to COMS and after they have had a bit of wear they go to Carousel in Wycombe.

The situation in Oxford is forced by a local bylaw prohibiting older buses from central Oxford, therefore Go Ahead have to move vehicles on quicker than normal.

 

[carlberry]

One major difference is that Transit Holdings ran in Oxford but not Cambridge. Unlike most places in Britain, bus usage in Oxford boomed from deregulation thanks to the very frequent and innovative services run by Thames Transit, which had to be responded to by Oxford Bus Company. Cambus was by comparison running a typical mediocre service. So by the time Stagecoach took over, Oxford already had a huge head start.

From memory it was just flooding routes, that they knew would be profitable, with minibuses. As an idea it's been tried in loads of places but dosent always result in long term usage.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The situation in Oxford is forced by a local bylaw prohibiting older buses from central Oxford, therefore Go Ahead have to move vehicles on quicker than normal.

Any plans to move those Stagecoach Gold vehicles?

Ironic that a premium service should have vehicles approaching 10 years old whilst all the regular services ran with much newer.

 

[PeterC]

The situation in Oxford is forced by a local bylaw prohibiting older buses from central Oxford, therefore Go Ahead have to move vehicles on quicker than normal.

At least WiFi is finally becoming standard on Carousel as a result.

 

[radamfi]

From memory it was just flooding routes, that they knew would be profitable, with minibuses. As an idea it's been tried in loads of places but dosent always result in long term usage.

There was also high frequency in the evening and Sundays and there was also extended hours of operation, including 24 hour service. Their publicity was also high quality. Towards the end, they had started to use double door Darts instead of minibuses but they maintained the high frequencies.

 

[Deerfold]

To be fair, many of the services in Cambridge seem to have improved over the last 20 years. They do tend to snarl to a halt in the city centre congestion more than in Oxford.