First B&TV Service 702 (Bracknell - London)

[DaveHarries]

Evening all,

First Berkshire & Thames Valley have decided that 'Greenline' Service 702 is unviable and have decided to withdraw it after operation on Saturday 23rd December. At the same time Reading Buses have announced that they will commence operating it on, and from, Wednesday 27th December although there will be a special service on Christmas Eve.

Reading Buses say on Facebook that "times and fares will be broadly similar to today." More details will appear on the RB website in due course.

HTIOI,
Dave

 

[freetoview33]

Another part of First withdrawing from the Thames Valley area?

 

[carlberry]

Evening all,

First Berkshire & Thames Valley have decided that 'Greenline' Service 702 is unviable and have decided to withdraw it after operation on Saturday 23rd December. At the same time Reading Buses have announced that they will commence operating it on, and from, Wednesday 27th December although there will be a special service on Christmas Eve.

Reading Buses say on Facebook that "times and fares will be broadly similar to today." More details will appear on the RB website in due course.

HTIOI,
Dave

They could make an arrangement with the Southend Corportation transport department to extend it across London as a joint operation.

I don't know why nobody has thought of it before!

If it gets really popular we could save all the expense of building Crossrail!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They could make an arrangement with the Southend Corportation transport department to extend it across London as a joint operation.

I don't know why nobody has thought of it before!

If it gets really popular we could save all the expense of building Crossrail!

Really Carl - that's preposterous. What are you going to suggest next - Dover to the North West via London operated by a rag tag of council owned firms......

 

[Wirewiper]

There are no trains between Slough and London Paddington on 24th and 27th December, so that could make the first few days of Reading Buses operation interesting .....

I cannot confirm this, but I have heard that the First B&TV Greenline Volvo B7TLs have already been earmarked for new homes, so Reading Buses will be sourcing vehicles of its own for the new operation. I suspect the First Volvos will have a swansong on the Slough-Hillingdon LU rail replacement service on 24th and 27th December and will then leave the area.

 

[carlberry]

Really Carl - that's preposterous. What are you going to suggest next - Dover to the North West via London operated by a rag tag of council owned firms......

I'd completely forgotten about that, and didn't really want to be reminded! Everybody knows all coach services should go via Cheltenham anyway!

 

[90sWereBetter]

I cannot confirm this, but I have heard that the First B&TV Greenline Volvo B7TLs have already been earmarked for new homes, so Reading Buses will be sourcing vehicles of its own for the new operation. I suspect the First Volvos will have a swansong on the Slough-Hillingdon LU rail replacement service on 24th and 27th December and will then leave the area.

[pedant mode]They're actually B9TLs [/pedant mode]. A pair from the first batch (58 plates) moved to Great Yarmouth a few years ago. The other 7 could in theory move there as well for the X1/X11s, but I think Eastern Counties have enough B9s and E400s for the service. Lowestoft could be a new home as well, in order to keep single deckers and W-plate B7s off the X2/X22.

On the subject of First Berkshire, I notice they're spending a fair bit of money refurbishing and route branding Citaros in Slough, so they'll still be there for the medium term. First will still technically be operating into London, as some of the Slough services reach Heathrow and Uxbridge (hey, if it's on the tube map, it's London to me. )

 

[Busaholic]

Really Carl - that's preposterous. What are you going to suggest next - Dover to the North West via London operated by a rag tag of council owned firms......

I've always thought an East Anglia to NW England route would be good, say Beccles to Eccles: alternatively, a route linking two iconic rivers in Lancashire and Dorset respectively. It could be marketed as 'From the Ribble to the Piddle'.

 

[KendalKing]

alternatively, a route linking two iconic rivers in Lancashire and Dorset respectively. It could be marketed as 'From the Ribble to the Piddle'.

see National Express service 333 Blackpool - Bournemouth

 

[KendalKing]

Really Carl - that's preposterous. What are you going to suggest next - Dover to the North West via London operated by a rag tag of council owned firms......

Wasn't this tried some years ago?, If I remember correctly it was know as the "City Flyer 100"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wasn't this tried some years ago?, If I remember correctly it was know as the "City Flyer 100"

Indeed - tongue was firmly in cheek. IIRC, Burnley and Pendle ran part of it, Leicester Citybus with Dennis Dorchesters, and probably some iffy Bedfords from Maidstone.

 

[spuddie]

Assuming it's only the 702 being cancelled by first and the 700 and 701 will still operate? In which case most of the B9TL's will be staying.

 

[Wirewiper]

Assuming it's only the 702 being cancelled by first and the 700 and 701 will still operate? In which case most of the B9TL's will be staying.

There are no route 700 or 701 journeys operating any more. It's only the 702 now and First has cancelled the whole lot.

 

[Wirewiper]

There is a distinct possibility that Reading Buses will celebrate the start of its 702 with a "Green Line" vintage running day on Christmas Eve ... watch this space!

 

[spuddie]

My apologies, I wasn't aware they are now all 702's.

I do fear the Greenline brand will not last too much longer, have Reading buses said if it will be Greenline branded or not?

In the last couple of years we have lost the 797 entirely, the 724 is now standard Arriva livery Citaro's with very small Greenline branding, the 757 and 758 have at least just had new coaches but in a very white almost NBC Greenline livery.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is a distinct possibility that Reading Buses will celebrate the start of its 702 with a "Green Line" vintage running day on Christmas Eve ... watch this space!

It's been confirmed already that there will be vintage vehicles running on the 24th

 

[A0]

They could make an arrangement with the Southend Corportation transport department to extend it across London as a joint operation.

I don't know why nobody has thought of it before!

If it gets really popular we could save all the expense of building Crossrail!

The problem with cross-London services was timekeeping - it's why Green Line stopped most such operations in the late 70s and early 80s - such routes included Hemel to East Grinstead for example, so if you were waiting in North London for the Hemel coach, it could easily be running 30-40 minutes late having navigated its way through Croydon and South London before it gets to you.

Ironically the original introduction of cross London services was at the behest of London County Council because they didn't want coaches laying over in central London.

 

[siriain]

Reading Buses are now advertising for drivers for the 702 - full details here:
http://www.reading-buses.co.uk/jobs/

 

[Busaholic]

Indeed - tongue was firmly in cheek. IIRC, Burnley and Pendle ran part of it, Leicester Citybus with Dennis Dorchesters, and probably some iffy Bedfords from Maidstone.

The latter with 3+2 seating, OK maybe from Maidstone to the Loose Women's Institute but a bit numbmaking if you were travelling from Ashford to Burnley. if the neighbouring seats were occupied. Leyland Nationals might have been better on a minus one to minus ten scale!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I do fear the Greenline brand will not last too much longer

I'd agree, they're a dying breed. Traffic congestion is the real killer.

 

[A0]

I'd agree, they're a dying breed. Traffic congestion is the real killer.

I think the Green Line network specifically has some challenges - traditionally they were commuter routes from the London Transport / London Country commuter area into central London with a couple of orbital routes.

The 'commuter' routes into Central London went into decline in the 1970s - you can pick your choice of blame, improving rail services due to electrification, traffic congestion causing delays, the introduction of the Leyland National as a Green Line coach being the oft cited ones.

There are two or three routes which have survived and thrived though - the 724 as an orbital service around the north of London, the 757 from Luton Airport to London and the Hemel commuter services 758.

In other areas of the country 'express' bus or coach services have survived in particular circumstances - Stagecoach (United Counties) have the X5 Oxford - MKC - Cambridge, the X4 MKC - Northampton - Peterboro and the X7 MKC - Northampton - Leicester all doing OK.

I don't think traffic congestion on its own is the killer - there are other factors, such as whether there is a decent / direct rail route. And also what the key destinations in a local area are.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think traffic congestion on its own is the killer - there are other factors, such as whether there is a decent / direct rail route.

True enough. I think I was more meaning that the coach services work where they can compete with rail, i.e. where they are slower, they're not so slow that they're unusable.

The Luton Airport buses compete because, unlike rail, they run direct. The Kings Ferry compete because they're direct to Docklands. IME the Hemel buses survive on the traffic to Brent Cross area combined with the inconvenience of .
getting to Hemel rail station from most of the town.

Where they fail is when they can never be cheap enough to offset just how slow they are. The Stevenage/Harlow buses went for that reason.

And up here the X9/10 Newcastle-Middlesbrough bus thrives as its quicker and more comfortable than the train.

It'll be interesting to see if the Legoland traffic is enough to support the 702.

 

[Hophead]

You also need to factor in the road quality: the 757 can use the M1 most of the way in, the 758 can combine the fast A41 then M1 - and this road continues as dual carriageway quite a bit further (albeit with multiple traffic-light junctions). Coach services from Oxford also gain from the M40/A40 all the way to Shepherds Bush or even Paddington (if they choose to go that way). Anything from south of London, on the other hand, hasn't a hope, despite the best efforts of Southern Rail.

 

[daodao]

I think the Green Line network specifically has some challenges - traditionally they were commuter routes from the London Transport / London Country commuter area into central London with a couple of orbital routes.

The 'commuter' routes into Central London went into decline in the 1970s - you can pick your choice of blame, improving rail services due to electrification, traffic congestion causing delays, the introduction of the Leyland National as a Green Line coach being the oft cited ones.

There are two or three routes which have survived and thrived though - the 724 as an orbital service around the north of London, the 757 from Luton Airport to London and the Hemel commuter services 758.

In other areas of the country 'express' bus or coach services have survived in particular circumstances - Stagecoach (United Counties) have the X5 Oxford - MKC - Cambridge, the X4 MKC - Northampton - Peterboro and the X7 MKC - Northampton - Leicester all doing OK.

I don't think traffic congestion on its own is the killer - there are other factors, such as whether there is a decent / direct rail route. And also what the key destinations in a local area are.

I did use Green Line services 715 and 718 in the 1970s, when I was a student in London, and regularly travelled to/from Roehampton, which was over 1 mile from the nearest station at Barnes, but they were poorly patronised even then.

Certain local express bus services have survived/prospered, e.g. some routes from Cardiff (in particular X4/T4 to Merthyr, despite the parallel rail route, as buses extend to the Heads of the Valleys or Brecon & Mid Wales) and from Manchester to East Lancashire (X41 and X43) where rail services were closed in the mid 1960's. However, other express bus routes in these areas have disappeared where rail services have survived/improved.

 

[Busaholic]

I did use Green Line services 715 and 718 in the 1970s, when I was a student in London, and regularly travelled to/from Roehampton, which was over 1 mile from the nearest station at Barnes, but they were poorly patronised even then.

Certain local express bus services have survived/prospered, e.g. some routes from Cardiff (in particular X4/T4 to Merthyr, despite the parallel rail route, as buses extend to the Heads of the Valleys or Brecon & Mid Wales) and from Manchester to East Lancashire (X41 and X43) where rail services were closed in the mid 1960's. However, other express bus routes in these areas have disappeared where rail services have survived/improved.

It is also notable that the one express service to/from central London from the suburbs that has survived, and thrives, is the X68 which serves Upper Norwood. This area is not only without a railway station, but would require long uphill walks (or a bus) in the evening for anyone arriving at any of the nearest stations, and is one reason why flat prices here are not as eye-watering as one might expect.

 

[Statto]

It is also notable that the one express service to/from central London from the suburbs that has survived, and thrives, is the X68 which serves Upper Norwood. This area is not only without a railway station, but would require long uphill walks (or a bus) in the evening for anyone arriving at any of the nearest stations, and is one reason why flat prices here are not as eye-watering as one might expect.

Interestingly the X68 only operates peaks & in one direction, towards Central London in the morning & from Central London in the afternoon/evening, the only other TFL express routes are 607 & X26 at least they operate most of the/all day, i wonder if TFL consider an all day X68 with the Thornton Heath-West Norwood part of the route quite a distance from rail stations

 

[Wirewiper]

In other areas of the country 'express' bus or coach services have survived in particular circumstances - Stagecoach (United Counties) have the X5 Oxford - MKC - Cambridge, the X4 MKC - Northampton - Peterboro and the X7 MKC - Northampton - Leicester all doing OK.

I don't think traffic congestion on its own is the killer - there are other factors, such as whether there is a decent / direct rail route. And also what the key destinations in a local area are.

These three are all examples of routes that are largely or wholly uncovered by rail links (most disappeared in the cutbacks of the 1960s).

Some other strengths the 702 has, apart from Legoland:

- direct from Knightsbridge & Kensington areas to Windsor Castle, so tourism potential.
- it is also the local bus link between Windsor, Ascot and Bracknell as most of the parallel services have disappeared. Quite a lot of Legoland staff use it.
- ENCTS passes are valid during the Scheme's hours of operation.
- serves Hammersmith, which is a major bus and tube hub for West London.

 

[PeterC]

Green Line as a brand has suffered from a combination of issues dating back to the 1970s or earlier.
The replacement of RMCs and RCLs with OPO vehicles meant that parallel red bus routes, still using Routemasters were faster within Greater London.
Pensioners bus passes were introduced in the early 70s which, then, only covered "red" buses.
Improved services on parallel rail routes
Break up of LCBS turning Green Line into a franchise. Operators could just as easily develop their own brands.
And of course congestion which makes only a limited number of corridors into London even vaguely reliable for road services.

 

[A0]

Interestingly the X68 only operates peaks & in one direction, towards Central London in the morning & from Central London in the afternoon/evening, the only other TFL express routes are 607 & X26 at least they operate most of the/all day, i wonder if TFL consider an all day X68 with the Thornton Heath-West Norwood part of the route quite a distance from rail stations

X26 is the interesting one, because I think that's the spiritual successor to the old Green Line route 726 which was a southern orbital route.

It was one of the Green Line services which wasn't registered as commercial in the 1980s - and I think Surrey CC contracted it? London Buses (or one of their units) ran it with red, coach seated Daf SB220s with Ikarus bodies IIRC?

The other GL services I'm aware of that LCBS didn't register as commercial were the 733 Hitchin - Heathrow which passed to Armchair initially and later was curtailed to Watford and operated by Luton & District and the 750 / 751 Hemel - Ware which initially stayed with London Country North West and later passed to Armchair being extended from Hemel to Rickmansworth and Heathrow.

 

[Statto]

X26 is the interesting one, because I think that's the spiritual successor to the old Green Line route 726 which was a southern orbital route.

It was one of the Green Line services which wasn't registered as commercial in the 1980s - and I think Surrey CC contracted it? London Buses (or one of their units) ran it with red, coach seated Daf SB220s with Ikarus bodies IIRC?

The other GL services I'm aware of that LCBS didn't register as commercial were the 733 Hitchin - Heathrow which passed to Armchair initially and later was curtailed to Watford and operated by Luton & District and the 750 / 751 Hemel - Ware which initially stayed with London Country North West and later passed to Armchair being extended from Hemel to Rickmansworth and Heathrow.

I believe London Buses were trying to get rid of the 726 in the 90s, including cutting & early late journeys, then cutting it to Bromley-Heathrow, it got renumbered to X26 & cut further to West Croydon-Heathrow by TFL, but with frequency increased with early & late journeys reintroduced & now operated by deckers.