Offensive Graffiti on Southern

[Bald Rick]

what do you mean by duty of care?
if someone is on the line because:
1)they are stoned out of their brains on some illicit substance and don't know where they are
2)they have a penchent for "artwork"/criminal damage
3)they have a penchent for pyrotechnics like parsons green

I think duty of care probably only extends to scenario 1 here,and that's only to get them apprehended and taken to a place of safety/medical asessment.

case study 2 is going to cost thousands,both in legal fees and remedial work,not to mention RISK of killing/hurting themselves.sentence should be commensurate with the "value" of the crime...ie £100k damage,+legal fees paid for by community work at average wage(lets say £28k per year)
£100k damage+legal cost looks like about 6 years community service to me.

case study 3 is going to cost lives if not dealt with swiftly and robustly....no duty of care required here,just duty of stopping it if and where possibe.

would you rather use the softly softly approach to begin with,and find out that you could have stopped it but didn't.....or the zero tolerance approach and find out it was a bit of an over-reaction?

You still can't go out and deliberately harm people. It's called assault.

 

[Delticthrash]

Aww poor driver. I think the only person that this is bad for is the driver, I feel sorry for him but it shouldn't really bother anyone else. They should replace it with a spare train if there is one available, and perhaps if they are running an 8 car train they could put it at the back?

Though I think it would be silly to essentially cancel a train and cause delays if there are no other units available, I'm sure the passengers would be using much more extreme language then!

 

[arb]

Though I think it would be silly to essentially cancel a train and cause delays if there are no other units available, I'm sure the passengers would be using much more extreme language then!

This wasn't part of my commute, but earlier this week Great Northern apparently took a train out of service due to offensive graffiti half-way through its journey. This didn't get the most polite selection of passenger responses on their twitter feed: https://twitter.com/search?q=gnrailuk graffiti&src=typd

 

[Delticthrash]

This wasn't part of my commute, but earlier this week Great Northern apparently took a train out of service due to offensive graffiti half-way through its journey. This didn't get the most polite selection of passenger responses on their twitter feed: https://twitter.com/search?q=gnrailuk graffiti&src=typd

There was an article about a thameslink service that was taken out of service at blackfriars due to inappropriate graffiti. Apparently they have to take out train services that have discriminatory writing or reference inappropriate things. I don't see why, we've all seen it before, and we know that that it is not part of the livery!

 

[Bromley boy]

From a driver’s perspective, if I was confronted with graffiti like that on a unit, I would fail the train immediately because it is partially obscuring the cab windows.

I also wouldn’t personally consider it acceptable to be driving a vehicle which is calling me a *see you next Tuesday*. I don’t go to work to be ritually humiliated.

It would also be totally unacceptable to drive a train with that word on it into a station, possibly with young children on the platform, who would immediately ask their parents what it meant(!)

I’ve seen quite a few “decorated” units running around, but not displaying anything offensive. Anything offensive (particularly if if racially abusive, for example) leads to immediate withdrawal of the unit in question.

 

[Bromley boy]

It’s not about being offended, it’s aboht ensuring that any graffiti isn’t visible. The idea is that the existence of graffiti promotes more graffiti (and worse) in the environment. There was a study in an American city about it once which I can’t be bothered to look up.

I don’t doubt there is some truth in that statement.

However, at my place, units will be allowed into service even if quite heavily tagged. If the tagging is offensive they will be withdrawn. Units will usually be cleaned within a couple of days of the graffiti appearing, in any event.

This is the balance that is struck between not withdrawing stock unecessarily, but also not allowing anything offensive to be displayed.

 

[Pete_uk]

Seems like someone has taken issue with either the driver or the guard, depending which way the train is going.

 

[furnessvale]

Seems like someone has taken issue with either the driver or the guard, depending which way the train is going.

FWIW I have seen exactly the same Graffiti on a caboose in the USA.

 

[LOL The Irony]

If it's offensive, send a MOM with a white spray can to cover it up until it can be cleaned. It can then stay in service and they can find a slot to clean it all off.

 

[Marklund]

Think MOMs have enough to do without having to do a TOCs job for them!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Think MOMs have enough to do without having to do a TOCs job for them!

Well anyone who can do it. Maybe cleaning staff at the terminus.

 

[Bromley boy]

If it's offensive, send a MOM with a white spray can to cover it up until it can be cleaned. It can then stay in service and they can find a slot to clean it all off.

Would take far too long, even assuming they're available - there aren't many of them!

Easier just to chop the unit out and short form a train.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Would take far too long, even assuming they're available - there aren't many of them!

Easier just to chop the unit out and short form a train.

It was just a suggestion...

 

[furnessvale]

Well anyone who can do it. Maybe cleaning staff at the terminus.

Maybe the driver, guard, OBS, platform staff etc. Or would all of them on the modern railway need a week long course on how to use the spray can with all the health and safety implications?

 

[Bromley boy]

Maybe the driver, guard, OBS, platform staff etc. Or would all of them on the modern railway need a week long course on how to use the spray can with all the health and safety implications?

All of whom have other jobs to be doing, and increasingly it’s just a driver.

“Shove a broom handle up the driver’s a** and he can sweep the platform when he walks along it” is something I read on here once, which springs to mind.

Trains being cancelled due to graffiti isn’t something that happens at all frequently. If it did, there would doubtless be another solution in place.

 

[rebmcr]

I think duty of care probably only extends to scenario 1 here

Lack of knowledge highlighted in red.

would you rather use the softly softly approach to begin with,and find out that you could have stopped it but didn't.....or the zero tolerance approach and find out it was a bit of an over-reaction?

Going by your classification of "avoid deathtraps" being "softly softly", yes I believe that's very reasonable and appropriate. :P

 

[furnessvale]

All of whom have other jobs to be doing, and increasingly it’s just a driver.

“Shove a broom handle up the driver’s a** and he can sweep the platform when he walks along it” is something I read on here once, which springs to mind.

Trains being cancelled due to graffiti isn’t something that happens at all frequently. If it did, there would doubtless be another solution in place.

Exactly, so on the odd occasion it happens, 10 seconds rough white spray by ANY member of staff is a lot quicker all round than cancelling the train.

 

[Bromley boy]

Exactly, so on the odd occasion it happens, 10 seconds rough white spray by ANY member of staff is a lot quicker all round than cancelling the train.

But then every train would need a can of white spray paint in the cab, just on the off chance. What if the white paint doesn't obscure the graffiti? In any case, if the graffiti obscures a cab window, it’s likely the train will be failed anyway.

That idea sounds like an expensive and impractical solution to a very minor problem!

 

[BTU]

Southern make up the rules as they go along you are not meant to take out a train with offensive graffiti on it, control would have been advised and said yeah run it. I have a theory on it but I won't share it lets just say I'm suspicious of management.