New Transdev Cityzap services registered (and now cancelled)

[Bletchleyite]

Flexibility?
Can change times of out and return to suit the weather.
Can decide not to go at all, or decide to go on the spur of the moment to suit the weather.

There's enough capacity on NatEx that you can do that on there much of the time, and the train is a slightly expensive insurance if it didn't work out.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

How long before National Express move to 'turn up and go' on this route, to compete? That would indicate that CityZap was having an impact on their services, rather than growing the market.

I've done the 060 Manchester to Leeds for a day trip (wanted a ride over the hill on the M62, and to go under the Pennine Way footbridge) but found the fixed return time sufficiently inconvenient to not repeat the trip.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ambleside's facility is terrible for the world-class tourist destination it is. It is a real off-putter to using what really is a very good service, doing the 1990s thing of hiding the buses round the back as if you're embarrassed about them. It needs a proper, impressive bus station, ideally staffed and with toilets and retail, opening in a more prominent location.

The Lake District *really* needs higher public transport use and fewer cars, so bad is the traffic. Stagecoach are doing their bit, but the National Park Authority really isn't.

Very off topic. There was both a bus station and a garage, sort of adjacent. Both were replaced by shops (Market Cross / Gaynor Sports area). Stagecoach are doing their bit supported by subsidy - from Europe if I recall correctly.

 

[SCH117X]

I'm not always a fan of Mr Hornby's self promotion but in all honesty, what's the man supposed to do? He's clearly an innovator and an extrovert - the very things that the bus industry is usually criticised for not being! Yes, they'll be the odd failure .

Theres been a few - the alleged fast 36s via Scott Hall Road in Leeds which in fact took longer than normal (slow) 36s via Harrogate Road, the failed attempt to serve the main entrance of Harrogate Hospital (4 and 5 quietly dropped), and now the through Route 1 service from Harrogate to Boroughbridge has been cut back to a Knaresborough to Boroughbridge with no buses running via the A1(M)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Theres been a few - the alleged fast 36s via Scott Hall Road in Leeds which in fact took longer than normal (slow) 36s via Harrogate Road, the failed attempt to serve the main entrance of Harrogate Hospital (4 and 5 quietly dropped), and now the through Route 1 service from Harrogate to Boroughbridge has been cut back to a Knaresborough to Boroughbridge with no buses running via the A1(M)

As I say, they'll be the odd failure. Think of all the experiments that are made that never come off - Brian Souter has made a few over time! Even repeating a trick that worked before is no guarantee of success.

At the end of the day, some will stick and some will fail. Entrepreneurship is sometimes rewarded and sometimes not even with the best of research and preparation.

 

[96tommy]

Does anybody know how much these kept to time in the peak periods?

 

[Bungle965]

Does anybody know how much these kept to time in the peak periods?

One broke down yesterday and had to be replaced by a Pride of the North vehicle.
Sam

 

[96tommy]

One broke down yesterday and had to be replaced by a Pride of the North vehicle.
Sam

Reliability issues also a problem with the first Cityzap. Guess to be expected if using buses with lots of miles already on them

 

[SCH117X]

The reliability issues with the Geminis was more to do with York getting the lemming of the fleet.

 

[SCH117X]

One broke down yesterday and had to be replaced by a Pride of the North vehicle.
Sam

Is that definite or just an assumption seeing the PoN liveried vehicle in use. The CityZap vehicles were in use on driver training runs last week and on display this weekend so it could have just been a vehicle pulled for routine maintenance. I expect the spare PoN liveried B7RLE 1867 will see a fair share of use whilst each of the CityZap vehicles 1868-1871 receives routine maintenance.

 

[Bungle965]

Is that definite or just an assumption seeing the PoN liveried vehicle in use. The CityZap vehicles were in use on driver training runs last week and on display this weekend so it could have just been a vehicle pulled for routine maintenance. I expect the spare PoN liveried B7RLE 1867 will see a fair share of use whilst each of the CityZap vehicles 1868-1871 receives routine maintenance.

There was a photo of one on Facebook which broke down and was being towed back to presumably the depot, while the assumption on my part was that the Pride of the North vehicle was the replacement for it.
Sam

 

[96tommy]

There was a photo of one on Facebook which broke down and was being towed back to presumably the depot, while the assumption on my part was that the Pride of the North vehicle was the replacement for it.
Sam

Not even 2 days in and one already broken down. Unsurprisingly can't see any mention of this on their Twitter. Anybody been on today to see how passenger numbers are doing?

Why they use unreliable buses on this service I will never know. I know new buses arena cost but long term could save loads.

 

[Bungle965]

Not even 2 days in and one already broken down. Unsurprisingly can't see any mention of this on their Twitter. Anybody been on today to see how passenger numbers are doing?

Why they use unreliable buses on this service I will never know. I know new buses arena cost but long term could save loads.

I think you are being very unfair here, the fact that a bus broke down after two days is more bad luck than anything else. After all the route is fairly notorious for the gradients along it while the CityZap twitter account have tweeted saying that their timekeeping has been 98% on time from either terminal so far.
Furthermore it would be unfair to evaluate how well a service is doing after only a couple of days of actually operating the route. While your last point about 'unreliable' buses do you have any evidence to back this up or is that simply your assumption?
That is not to say that new buses would not be nice for that route, I believe that double deckers would make for lovely views, while the inclusion of tables as similar to those on Coastliner would also help to generate extra patronage. If the route does prove to be popular I am under no doubt that suitable investments will be made in future.
Sam

 

[96tommy]

I think you are being very unfair here, the fact that a bus broke down after two days is more bad luck than anything else. After all the route is fairly notorious for the gradients along it while the CityZap twitter account have tweeted saying that their timekeeping has been 98% on time from either terminal so far.
Furthermore it would be unfair to evaluate how well a service is doing after only a couple of days of actually operating the route. While your last point about 'unreliable' buses do you have any evidence to back this up or is that simply your assumption?
That is not to say that new buses would not be nice for that route, I believe that double deckers would make for lovely views, while the inclusion of tables as similar to those on Coastliner would also help to generate extra patronage. If the route does prove to be popular I am under no doubt that suitable investments will be made in future.
Sam

I was not just off about the buses on this Cityzap but the reliability of the Geminis on the York Zap which are often breaking down. I agree double deckers would be nice but I expect the high winds on the M62 and expectant passenger numbers mean it is not an option

 

[96tommy]

29 people on the 10:30 today taking advantage of the first week offer.

Noticed the Twitter page is very misleading stating there are no trains between Leeds and Manchester today when in fact TPExpress services are running.

Also seen a Burnley Optare Versa operating the new Cityzap today so I don't know if another one has broken down or the pride of the north bus has broken down

 

[96tommy]

Looks like a Pride of the North B7TL Gemini, Burnley Versa and a Pride of the North B7RLE have been on the route today. 3 of the 4 haven't broken down already have they?!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Looks like a Pride of the North B7TL Gemini, Burnley Versa and a Pride of the North B7RLE have been on the route today. 3 of the 4 haven't broken down already have they?!

Your love affair with Conn/dislike of Transdev is getting rather tiresome

At this rate, we'll have to christen you "agreenflyer" after the person on another thread who had a similar relationship with Premiere/TrentBarton

 

[96tommy]

Your love affair with Conn/dislike of Transdev is getting rather tiresome

At this rate, we'll have to christen you "agreenflyer" after the person on another thread who had a similar relationship with Premiere/TrentBarton

I don't have a dislike of either to be honest. Both have their great points and both have their faults, just like with any company. I am looking forward to trying the CityZap one day. I just like to have a view that looks at both their positives and negatives and Connexions always get a strong dislike against them on this forum for whatever reasons comapred to Transdev. I was just wondering why CityZap vechiles were not being used on the route they are advertised for?

 

[Andyh82]

Your love affair with Conn/dislike of Transdev is getting rather tiresome

At this rate, we'll have to christen you "agreenflyer" after the person on another thread who had a similar relationship with Premiere/TrentBarton

The amount of times he's mentioned how nobody apparently uses Cityzap1 and every journey runs empty that's if it runs at all, I think you might be right.

 

[96tommy]

The amount of times he's mentioned how nobody apparently uses Cityzap1 and every journey runs empty that's if it runs at all, I think you might be right.

I never said every journey just that in the off peak period there are often buses which ran near empty. However in the last few weeks when back up in York I have noticed them becoming more busy.

 

[Stan Drews]

29 people on the 10:30 today taking advantage of the first week offer.

Noticed the Twitter page is very misleading stating there are no trains between Leeds and Manchester today when in fact TPExpress services are running.

Also seen a Burnley Optare Versa operating the new Cityzap today so I don't know if another one has broken down or the pride of the north bus has broken down

Do you mean the tweet that asked a question?
https://twitter.com/cityzapbus/status/927891868653965314

If so, I think it's more a case of you misreading, rather than them misleading.

 

[SCH117X]

Looks like a Pride of the North B7TL Gemini, Burnley Versa and a Pride of the North B7RLE have been on the route today. 3 of the 4 haven't broken down already have they?!

Or could it have been excessive demand due to the limited rail service forcing duplicates / larger vehicles into use (okay not the Versa in that respect)

 

[Bungle965]

Or could it have been excessive demand due to the limited rail service forcing duplicates / larger vehicles into use (okay not the Versa in that respect)

This was what was posted by Richard Clinnick on Twitter about the increased usage of National Express due to various strikes.
Sam

 

[SCH117X]

One of the B7RLEs did break down in Manchester yesterday and the Versa was used as a replacement until it could be replaced. Could imply they have a spare sat vehicle in Manchester just in case something fails be it the Cityzap, Witchway or Red Express, although why Versa presumably only whoever allocated the vehicles to their routes that morning can answer.

EDIT: Done a search on Flickr -Cityzap and recent posts order. The Versa only worked to Leeds where it was replaced by a Gemini.

 

[96tommy]

Just seen on Twitter that they had technical issues with one of the Cityzap 2 buses today and got a replacement one in.

 

[Statto]

Caught the Manchester CityZap at Leeds yesterday i see there's 65 minute layover is scheduled at Leeds to allow for any delays, 14.30 departed on time only a handful of passengers on, however observing the York CityZap, that had quite a few passengers on that looks to be doing well, both CityZaps left Leeds at the same time, Manchester bus was along side the York at the traffic lights waiting to depart the bus station, Manchester CityZap was a few minutes late due to the traffic lights along the A663 Broadway going through Chadderton, the 08.10 from Manchester was 20 minutes late because of traffic into Manchester

 

[tbtc]

Just seen on Twitter that they had technical issues with one of the Cityzap 2 buses today and got a replacement one in.

Is this going to be like the early days of Northern operating 319s, where every single delay/ cancellation/ breakdown gets a huge amount of attention? That was equally riveting.

 

[96tommy]

Before people say I'm having a go etc... i am not and just asking a genuine question.

Is there a reason that CityZap vehicles are so unreliable of late. I take it constant motorway running can't be helping and the age of the buses. Coastliner B7TLs before retiring B9TLs still running seem never seem to suffer from reliability tissues though. Reading another bus forum it appears the York Zap B7TLs have suffered a few failures this week and a crash and so have a few Manchester B7RLEs

 

[SCH117X]

Before people say I'm having a go etc... Just a genuine question.

Is there a reason that CityZap vehicles are so unreliable of late. I take it constant motorway running can't be helping. Reading another bus forum it appears the York Zap B7TLs have suffered a few failures this week and a crash.

Crash was a Gemini reversing into a lamppost; somewhat less devastating than the vehicle of your favourite Tockwith based operator demolishing the rear wall at Harrogate bus station. As has been pointed out to you on another thread all operators suffer the vehicle failures. The York Geminis along with those now at Blackburn for example all suffered a series of failures when at Harrogate one summer in hot weather and that had nothing to do with constant motorway running. The problems with the Manchester routes B7RLEs may turn out to be attributable to their recent refurbishment; a replacement part being sub standard for example. If constant motorway running is such a problem to mid life vehicles how exactly does the haulage industry cope?

 

[Stan Drews]

Before people say I'm having a go etc... i am not and just asking a genuine question.

Is there a reason that CityZap vehicles are so unreliable of late. I take it constant motorway running can't be helping and the age of the buses. Coastliner B7TLs before retiring B9TLs still running seem never seem to suffer from reliability tissues though. Reading another bus forum it appears the York Zap B7TLs have suffered a few failures this week and a crash and so have a few Manchester B7RLEs

The York B7TLs seemed to be okay yesterday, with all workings in the hands of the normal branded buses. The Manchester service had 3 branded B7RLEs plus the Pride of the North spare B9TL running.
I understand there's only been one significant failure on the new service and that it could have happened at any time on any type of work. However, there are clearly some commentators on certain forums that are loathe to allow the facts to ruin their story!