Class 444 - 15 Car formations and awful air conditioning

[GospelOak117]

My usual 08.59 from Bournemouth this morning was according to the automated announcement and display screens due to be a 15 car train. In the event the usual 5 car 444 turned up from weymouth and coupled to another 5 car 444 waiting. I have to question south west trains addition skills and even more whether a 15 car formation could even be accommodated anywhere.

Another point is desiro air conditioning. In this recent hot weather i have become very aware that everyday the aircons on 444/450's have little or no effect, leaving me sweltering inside a completely sealed cocoon. Other modern units are much better in this respect such as c2c's 357's which feel like the arctic on a hot summers day, lovely! Even more the lymington 421 with, wait for it, openable windows!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Daimler]

I've always found Desiro air-con quite good - it certainly sounds potent enough! The only truly unpleasant trip I've had when air-con wasn't working was a 377 from Watford to Kensington Olympia in the rush hour in mid-July. That was shortish, but not fun.

 

[37401]

i find the air-con on desiros to be quite good, most modern air-cons are the same as a Athsmatic blowing at you through a straw, completly usless

 

[GospelOak117]

is that on 350's though, the 450's and 444's have been around a few more years, maybe a sign of things to come on the 350's, dont get too attatched to your ice cold summers lol

 

[F Great Eastern]

The 360s have good air conditinoning. I usd to get a packed peak 360 every day in the FGE days and there would be people standing everywhere and slouched against the door some days when the 86's always used to fail, but never was I really too hot.

Maybe SWT just do not maintain them well enough?

 

[Daimler]

is that on 350's though, the 450's and 444's have been around a few more years, maybe a sign of things to come on the 350's, dont get too attatched to your ice cold summers lol

Don't worry, I'm used to it - I've been travelling on 321s for years. 321s' windows manage the quite impressive feat of both making a sound like (to paraphrase Modern Railways) the vent fans on the Mersey Tunnel when open, and yet still deliver almost no cool air at all!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Having the 321 windows open can be a nightmare, especially the ones with loose windows that once you've opened, they bang open and shut every time another train goes past.

 

[O L Leigh]

I've been travelling on 321s for years. 321s' windows manage the quite impressive feat of both making a sound like (to paraphrase Modern Railways) the vent fans on the Mersey Tunnel when open, and yet still deliver almost no cool air at all!

Eh...?

When you're riding on a non-A/C unit, why would expect cool air to come in through the hopper vents? If it's sweltering outside then the air coming through the windows will also be warm. The only reason why it might feel cooler is because of the wind chill factor of it coming through at about 80mph or so. To expect anything different is completely unrealistic.

Having the 321 windows open can be a nightmare, especially the ones with loose windows that once you've opened, they bang open and shut every time another train goes past.

That's a trick we use on the Cl315's.

If the hopper vent on the non-driver's side of the cab is open and you want it closed, just accelerate up to about 60mph and drop the driver's side droplight window all the way down. The change in air pressure in the cab is enough to have the vent slam shut.

Mind you, it's not so much of a problem since they fitted A/C into the cabs.

O L Leigh

 

[Oracle]

Interesting thought about a 15-car 444! Only ever seen two 3 x 450s, and that was long enough!

 

[MCR247]

Interesting thought about a 15-car 444! Only ever seen two 3 x 450s, and that was long enough!

They cant run a 15car 444 because the platforms cant accomidate it, ony 3x450 & 2x444

 

[Oracle]

Agreed...but my mind was boggling about a 10-car pushing a failed 5-car! Some idea can be envisaged with the 8-VAB that was often coupled to a 4-car. I used to 'spot' at New Milton late 1960s when holidaying. It was fun seeing the combo stop at the short-platformed station...two goes were often the order.

 

[Skie]

Didnt Merseyrail have a lot of fun and games with a failed 6 car needing to be rescued, and the 6 car that arrived to assist managed to gap itself, requiring even more units to come and assist?

And at least you lot have windows that open more than a quarter of an inch or units with fans. Merseyrails refurbs have the windows chocked up so they barely open, and they specialise in running the least carriages possible when its hot and busy. Even more fun on the units with their heating stuck on.

 

[jv3531]

15 car could be ran but they would need to lock one of the units out using selective door control to open the doors. They would also need to isolate some of the Traction Motors as the supply wouldn't take it. Its why its only ever done as a last resort and then only for as short a distance as possible, usually to assist in clearing the line to a point where passengers could be detrained.

There are regular twelve car ormations especially in the peaks, although these do tend to not call at all stations, if they do then usually one of the units will be locked out.

 

[Oracle]

I've seen a 12-car ECS heading Up from Southampton Central, and there was one parked up at Northam Depot outside the sheds one Saturday a week or so ago.

 

[jv3531]

If memory serves me correctly, there are at least 3 or 4 each way during the week which are ECS to Waterloo - think one does basingstoke and one does farnham? too.

 

[Daimler]

Eh...?

When you're riding on a non-A/C unit, why would expect cool air to come in through the hopper vents? If it's sweltering outside then the air coming through the windows will also be warm. The only reason why it might feel cooler is because of the wind chill factor of it coming through at about 80mph or so. To expect anything different is completely unrealistic.

O L Leigh

I should perhaps have siad 'no air at all'. My point being that they make a huge amount of noise for little or no gain.

 

[thefab444]

SWT Desiro air-con used to be brilliant, but a number of commuters complained it was too cold so the temperature was increased by a few degrees. It cannot be controlled locally by the guard, only by the top bods at Siemens. Perhaps people should start a campaign to get the aircon turned up - it still makes the same amount of noise just the air is warmer.

As usual, minority pax spoiling it for the majority.

 

[GospelOak117]

They cant run a 15car 444 because the platforms cant accomidate it, ony 3x450 & 2x444

She said it again this afternoon, as did the screens but once again a 10car turned up! Bring back the automated mans voice, he sounded like he knew what he was talking about, this woman cant even say Poole or Moreton properly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SWT Desiro air-con used to be brilliant, but a number of commuters complained it was too cold so the temperature was increased by a few degrees. It cannot be controlled locally by the guard, only by the top bods at Siemens. Perhaps people should start a campaign to get the aircon turned up - it still makes the same amount of noise just the air is warmer.

As usual, minority pax spoiling it for the majority.

Apparently the other morning the heaters were on!!

 

[thefab444]

Might I ask what station you are referring to in your last post; Bournemouth? Or Waterloo?

The incorrect announcements about the formation of the train is a programming error, one of many since the timetable change came out (trains to Victoria from Southampton now supposedly call at stations they actually don't like Coulsdon South!). Nothing to do with the voice used (this is a simple switch). Neither of them could say Moreton properly, is it not "Morryton", both the male and female voices say "Moore-ton".

If the heaters were on then I would guess that's a fault with the unit.

 

[GospelOak117]

Might I ask what station you are referring to in your last post; Bournemouth? Or Waterloo?

The incorrect announcements about the formation of the train is a programming error, one of many since the timetable change came out (trains to Victoria from Southampton now supposedly call at stations they actually don't like Coulsdon South!). Nothing to do with the voice used (this is a simple switch). Neither of them could say Moreton properly, is it not "Morryton", both the male and female voices say "Moore-ton".

If the heaters were on then I would guess that's a fault with the unit.

This was from Winchester at 17.06. Would anyone know why I saw a packed Southern 377 at Eastleigh the other day, what service is this?

 

[MCR247]

This was from Winchester at 17.06. Would anyone know why I saw a packed Southern 377 at Eastleigh the other day, what service is this?

Southern have 1tpd from Soton - Brighton via Eastleigh

 

[thefab444]

And 1tpd return which is what the OP saw (IIRC it's the 17:16 off Eastleigh) as the outward service departs Southampton at 14:27.

 

[Oracle]

Is there still a Soton- London Bridge via Eastleigh?

 

[O L Leigh]

I should perhaps have siad 'no air at all'. My point being that they make a huge amount of noise for little or no gain.

That's odd.

Our outwardly similar Cl317/6's have excellent ventilation through the vents and you can get a really good breeze. It isn't always enough to cool the saloons as much as folk would like for the reason I gave above, but it's still fresh air coming in and displacing the stale old air.

O L Leigh

 

[ffcphone]

SWT Desiro air-con used to be brilliant, but a number of commuters complained it was too cold so the temperature was increased by a few degrees. It cannot be controlled locally by the guard, only by the top bods at Siemens. Perhaps people should start a campaign to get the aircon turned up - it still makes the same amount of noise just the air is warmer.

As usual, minority pax spoiling it for the majority.

Same thing happened up here with fTPE. Some passengers moaned the aircon on the 185s (Desiro based) was too cold so a software update was done to increase slightly. Over these last few days, it's noticeable how the carriage temperature hasn't been cool enough although cooler than outside admittedly.

As an aside, I once saw a technician using a laptop and something like a long RS232 lead to plug into the heating and aircon system on a 185. He was in the first class section and the connection point was in the ceiling having removed some fascia panels. His laptop displayed all sorts of "live" and historical information and I believe it is via this laptop method that the desired temperature is set. Surprised the conductor can't simply adjust the temperature from his cab. I've heard the Train Managers on Pendos announce they'd adjusted the temperature so presumably it's a simple operation for them.

F

 

[thefab444]

Is there still a Soton- London Bridge via Eastleigh?

No.

The 0548 Southampton - London Bridge runs via Swanwick (and strangely calls at Woolston).

 

[thefab444]

Judging by recent journies, the SWT Desiro A/C has been turned back to fridge status.

 

[GospelOak117]

Judging by recent journies, the SWT Desiro A/C has been turned back to fridge status.

ah still not cold enough, were not in refreshing class 357 territory yet lol

 

[thefab444]

The ones I've been on were cold, with a nice breeze.

 

[GospelOak117]

Another thing i have noticed on 444's are the dark mouldy looking patches on some of the lighting, is leaking roofs a problem on these units?
I remember being on one in the summer 07 during a heavy storm and water was pouring in through the middle of the ceiling!!