Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[northwichcat]

What you do is, Terminate all Manchester trains at Greenbank and do Crewe-Middlewich-Northwich-Chester. Problem solved

Creates a big problem in trying to solve a minor issue. Currently there's a significant number of people using Mid-Cheshire services to get from Chester (and beyond) to Sheffield (and beyond.) The timings work well for connections at Stockport and with the new Northern Connect service going in to Victoria, that won't be a useful alternative. Having the Chester service as a semi-fast to Stockport could mean those passengers see their journey times shorten, or alternatively take the same time but significantly reduce the chance of a missed connection.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't know about number of complaints but it was just not individuals but organisations that complained.

For Barclays, Knutsford Academy, South Trafford College, St Ambrose, St Nicholas, Mid-Cheshire College, Hartford CofE High etc. (which get a four figure number of daily passengers between them) what matters is the extra services being instated ASAP, for their pupils/employees it doesn't matter which is the semi-fast and which is the stopper at off-peak times.

Knutsford Town Council received a number of comments saying people are against the proposed timetable but that was due to a poorly worded Knutsford Guardian article which implied there would 2tph between Greenbank and Manchester and all passengers for Chester would have to change at Greenbank, opposed to just passengers from Lostock, Plumley, Mobberley, Ashley and Navigation Rd needing to change for Chester.

If the Chester service does become the all-stops wonder how long it'll be before Mobberley and Ashley passengers will complain about trains with plenty of empty seats skipping those stations on the way to Manchester, while standing room only trains stop there. Unless Northern decide to run Chester services as 4 cars (I wouldn't bet on that.)

As I said in#324 the defining factor is paths on the Stockport to Piccadilly section; so if you had this magical 30-minute gap the train would have to wait at Stockport for a path.

I've heard from more than one source that Northern could do more to standardise gaps between services using the available paths. Even TfGM have said that. We already know the 17:09 Chester departure from Piccadilly currently is because the Northern planners looked for the easiest option when they found a Stoke service couldn't run in that path when they could have used the 17:23 path for Chester and the 17:09 for Hazel Grove/Buxton, which would have the Chester closer to the standard pattern time and spaced out services to Hazel Grove more evenly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are there any planned line improvements or possible new stations in the pipeline for the line between Navigation Road and Stockport stations?

 

[Altfish]

For Barclays, Knutsford Academy, South Trafford College, St Ambrose, St Nicholas, Mid-Cheshire College, Hartford CofE High etc. (which get a four figure number of daily passengers between them) what matters is the extra services being instated ASAP, for their pupils/employees it doesn't matter which is the semi-fast and which is the stopper at off-peak times.

Knutsford Town Council received a number of comments saying people are against the proposed timetable but that was due to a poorly worded Knutsford Guardian article which implied there would 2tph between Greenbank and Manchester and all passengers for Chester would have to change at Greenbank, opposed to just passengers from Lostock, Plumley, Mobberley, Ashley and Navigation Rd needing to change for Chester.

If the Chester service does become the all-stops wonder how long it'll be before Mobberley and Ashley passengers will complain about trains with plenty of empty seats skipping those stations on the way to Manchester, while standing room only trains stop there. Unless Northern decide to run Chester services as 4 cars (I wouldn't bet on that.)

I agree, the sooner the better for starting the enhanced service. But as I understand it the spare trains are not yet available. We are awaiting 156s(?) from Scotland/Wales wherever to replace the Pacers that currently run most of the services.

I've heard from more than one source that Northern could do more to standardise gaps between services using the available paths. Even TfGM have said that. We already know the 17:09 Chester departure from Piccadilly currently is because the Northern planners looked for the easiest option when they found a Stoke service couldn't run in that path when they could have used the 17:23 path for Chester and the 17:09 for Hazel Grove/Buxton, which would have the Chester closer to the standard pattern time and spaced out services to Hazel Grove more evenly.

I think the issue here is that the Mid-Cheshire line comes well down the pecking order for paths and gets what is left over after all the others sort theirs.
I bow to your better knowledge on available paths. I will say though that the Chester trains use Platform 2 (Sharing with Virgin, Cross Country & ATW) at Stockport and have to then cross all the north bound lines, whereas Hazel Grove uses Platform 1 (mainly Local) and has no issues crossing lines so can move through Stockport considerably quicker. I think the Chester trains are the only Northern service using that platform all the rest are long distance and expresses.

 

[Altfish]

Are there any planned line improvements or possible new stations in the pipeline for the line between Navigation Road and Stockport stations?

None planned, although Baguley (interchange with Metrolink) and Cheadle have been campaign for. The downside is the extra time the trains will take on an already slow journey.
I'd like to see one in Timperley Village too.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the issue here is that the Mid-Cheshire line comes well down the pecking order for paths and gets what is left over after all the others sort theirs.
I bow to your better knowledge on available paths. I will say though that the Chester trains use Platform 2 (Sharing with Virgin, Cross Country & ATW) at Stockport and have to then cross all the north bound lines, whereas Hazel Grove uses Platform 1 (mainly Local) and has no issues crossing lines so can move through Stockport considerably quicker. I think the Chester trains are the only Northern service using that platform all the rest are long distance and expresses.

You probably recall pre-2008 there were 2 x xx:24 departures from Piccadilly and the Chester train ran in the 'fast path' arriving at Stockport platform 2 at xx:33, while a Voyager ran in the 'slow path' and arrived at Stockport platform 1 at xx:31.

As it is currently platform 2 at Stockport is free between a Virgin departure at 17:23 and a XC departure at 17:35. There is a TPE service to Cleethorpes which runs on the slow line, while a Buxton runs on the fast line! It is possible for a Chester service to depart from platform 1 - the 17:58 Stockport to Chester is scheduled to use platform 1 currently. There are also some Stoke stoppers which use platform 2 so Chester services aren't the only services departing from platform 2.

Regardless of the previous and current situation I thought Northern had xx:09 and xx:40 paths out of Piccadilly for Mid-Cheshire services at the next recast and it's the northbound direction (which should be easier to path) where they plan to use the existing path plus another one around 15 minutes afterwards.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are there any planned line improvements or possible new stations in the pipeline for the line between Navigation Road and Stockport stations?

Baguley. But that's been a possiblity for ages. IMO I think that will just invite kids from Wythenshawe & Trafford to come vandalise Knutsford again.

 

[Altfish]

Baguley. But that's been a possiblity for ages. IMO I think that will just invite kids from Wythenshawe & Trafford to come vandalise Knutsford again.

As someone who lives in Trafford; since Navigation Rd, Altrincham and Hale are all in Trafford, why would a station in Wythenshawe, which is in Manchester CC lead to an increase in vandalism by Trafford kids?

 

[LOL The Irony]

As someone who lives in Trafford; since Navigation Rd, Altrincham and Hale are all in Trafford, why would a station in Wythenshawe, which is in Manchester CC lead to an increase in vandalism by Trafford kids?

It's how they did it the first time

 

[northwichcat]

As someone who lives in Trafford; since Navigation Rd, Altrincham and Hale are all in Trafford, why would a station in Wythenshawe, which is in Manchester CC lead to an increase in vandalism by Trafford kids?

Pre-1974 council reorganisation Longridge (Knutsford) and Colshaw Farm (Wilmslow) were built as overflow housing estates due to a shortage of council housing in Wythenshawe. Those estates were passed to Manchester City Council despite being in Cheshire and were recently sold to Great Places Housing Group.

Last year a gang of around 30 teenagers reportedly from Stretford and Wythenshawe turned up in Knutsford and started assaulting people and vandalising things.

 

[Altfish]

It's how they did it the first time

???????

 

[no commute yet]

Middlewich getting a mention in tonight’s Northern Transport debate in the House of Commons

 

[LOL The Irony]

Middlewich getting a mention in tonight’s Northern Transport debate in the House of Commons

Any news come of it?

 

[no commute yet]

Any news come of it?

None directly from that but on Friday the campaign group added Mike Amesbury MP (Northwich) to their list of confirmed supporter MPs along the line. That makes 3 (the other two are Fiona Bruce and Esther McVey.)

 

[no commute yet]

The Northwich transport strategy consultation closes on 31st December. Returning services to Crewe via Middlewich and Sandbach and putting a station at Gadbrook are among the options being consulted on. The survey can be found on the Cheshire West Council web site.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The Northwich transport strategy consultation closes on 31st December. Returning services to Crewe via Middlewich and Sandbach and putting a station at Gadbrook are among the options being consulted on. The survey can be found on the Cheshire West Council web site.

I'm guessing that you have to be from Chesire West to sign it.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm guessing that you have to be from Chesire West to sign it.

Without opening the site I see no reason why you should be. Someone more distant from the immediate area could be a potential user.

 

[Altfish]

Without opening the site I see no reason why you should be. Someone more distant from the immediate area could be a potential user.

I'm not from Cheshire West but I'd use it to get from Altrincham to Crewe

 

[Altfish]

The Northwich transport strategy consultation closes on 31st December. Returning services to Crewe via Middlewich and Sandbach and putting a station at Gadbrook are among the options being consulted on. The survey can be found on the Cheshire West Council web site.

The link's not easy to find, here it is...
http://inside.cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk/get_involved/consultations/northwich_transport_strategy

 

[dggar]

^^^^^^^

I wonder why...

 

[6Gman]

Such commuters would not go via Northwich and the abysmally slow Mid-Cheshire line though would they?
Instead changing at Sandbach or Crewe - whichever was quicker.

I would guess a lot of Middlewich commuters would drive to Sandbach or Holmes Chapel even after a Middlewich station reopened.

 

[Altfish]

I would guess a lot of Middlewich commuters would drive to Sandbach or Holmes Chapel even after a Middlewich station reopened.

Surely that would depend on the service offered, connections available and where you are going.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Talking of Sandbach, is the railway station there ideally situated for those rail commuters who work in the centre of that town?

 

[6Gman]

Talking of Sandbach, is the railway station there ideally situated for those rail commuters who work in the centre of that town?

No.

But I suspect commuting into Sandbach is minimal.

 

[6Gman]

Surely that would depend on the service offered, connections available and where you are going.

The original reference was specifically about commuting to Manchester. I suspect/ guess/ feel/ would be of the opinion that the journey time to Manchester would be less from HC or S than from M (no connections needed). Depending on where you live in Middlewich it might also be easier to travel to HC or S than to battle through the traffic into Middlewich town centre, which is notorious for congestion.

 

[Altfish]

Talking of Sandbach, is the railway station there ideally situated for those rail commuters who work in the centre of that town?

It's not even in Sandbach, it is in Elworth about a mile and a half from Sandbach.

 

[no commute yet]

One of the great things about Middlewich (pop 14k) is that it's quite compact so a lot of people live within easy walking distance of where the station will be. The whole town is in easy cycling distance. That's all helped by the presence already of an underpass which enables access no matter which side the station gets built on.

In terms of usage, 40% of Middlewich's working population commute to Manchester. Passenger numbers at Sandbach, Holmes Chapel, Goostry, Northwich and Lostock suggest that not many of them are driving to other towns for the train - although some do.

As an old Roman town with pretty much only a road to the north (Northwich) two to the South (Sandbach) (Nantwich Rd to Crewe) one to the east (Holmes Chapel) and one to the west (Winsford) we get a huge amount of through traffic and that helps explain why our little piece of track is so important- just as we're at the interesection of the Mid Cheshire road network so we are also for the rail network.

The connections our line make include:
Crewe, Sandbach and Middlewich to the Mid Cheshire Line and Metrolink at Altrincham for Media City
Crewe, Sandbach and Middlewich to the Mid Cheshire Line for Gadbrook Park (employs 5k people)
Crewe, Sandbach and Middlewich to the schools and colleges at Greenbank
Middlewich to Manchester via either Sandbach or Northwich
Altrincham, Hale and Knutsford (and the rest of the Mid Cheshire stations) to Crewe for Crewe (hospital/Bentley etc) or for onward connections.

Sandbach station is in the north of the town but as Sandbach, like Middlewich, is a Manchester and M6 commuter town so not many people commute to there for work.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sandbach station is in the north of the town but as Sandbach, like Middlewich, is a Manchester and M6 commuter town so not many people commute to there for work.

Is there a large industrial estate in Elworth (where I am informed where Sandbach station actually is situated)? Would people working there normally travel to and from work by car rather than by train?

 

[keith1879]

Is there a large industrial estate in Elworth (where I am informed where Sandbach station actually is situated)? Would people working there normally travel to and from work by car rather than by train?

Unless I'm missing something from the above discussion the relevance of Sandbach station is that people commute from there to somewhere else (posts 354 and 357) (Manchester - or possibly Crewe) - Sandbach isn't a destination is it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Unless I'm missing something from the above discussion the relevance of Sandbach station is that people commute from there to somewhere else (posts 354 and 357) (Manchester - or possibly Crewe) - Sandbach isn't a destination is it?

I had in mind the possibility of people travelling from Middlewich to that area to work on the said large industrial estate at Elworth.