Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[zuriblue]

If (and it's unlikely) there was going to be a custom build by Stadler (based on the cheaper GTW rather than the FLIRT), it could be built with modular power units as a DEMU, which could later have engines removed and batteries added as technology improved. But the cost of that is likely to be prohibitive even though Stadler are well geared-up to produce small builds of custom units.

But if the third rail isn't life expired or wouldn't be too costly to fix, it might as well be kept, there's no great problem with having it.

I would have thought the Tango LRV would be more appropriate. It may be a tram but it is the basis of the Berlin IK class that are currently entering service.

Or the F class BVG trains which are currently being replaced by the IK class, the earliest ones are due to be withdrawn by 2020. The large profile trains are 2.65m wide, 1.8m high and 15.5m long.

 

[Rick1984]

I took my bike to Shanklin from Ryde and enjoyed a 12 mile cycle ride. Get rid of the train and this is no longer an option.

 

[Chris125]

I don't think you can say Ventnor has suffered particularly - unless you can provide some concrete evidence to the contrary.

As a coastal resort relatively remote from the rest of the Island, let alone the mainland, Ventnor has arguably suffered more from the loss of it's railway than anywhere else here - it should be one of the most popular and fashionable areas yet there's been precious little investment and redevelopment for decades.

Even the Town Council's website says that despite the change in holidaying habits "...it was the closure in 1966 of the Town's Railway Station that most seriously affected Ventnor's prosperity".

However this may well explain why it has retained more of it's (albeit faded) Victorian charm than Sandown Bay.

 

[bramling]

I don't suppose you have any facts to back up that piece of conjecture?

Ventnor was always a much smaller place than the others up the coast, yet is still busy in high season.

I don't think you can say Ventnor has suffered particularly - unless you can provide some concrete evidence to the contrary.

It’s hard to infer much with Ventnor as both stations were rather poorly sited. Indeed had the main station been well sited then it might just have formed part of the electrification.

One wonders how much it would actually cost to re-open to Ventnor. The formation is pretty clear apart from light industrial estates at the two station sites, and presumably the tunnel is still maintained. Comparatively speaking the cost would surely be fairly low.

 

[Rick1984]

Of course they did plan to build a funicular in Ventnor
http://www.iwhistory.org.uk/RM/funicularrailway/

But sadly never materialised

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite some time ago, I think that there was a thread on the website that showed towns (and their population) that did not have a railway station. In the 2011 census, Ventnor is shown as having a population of 5,976. I am sure that Ventnor was not amongst those towns with a much larger population.

 

[Dougal2345]

Quite some time ago, I think that there was a thread on the website that showed towns (and their population) that did not have a railway station. In the 2011 census, Ventnor is shown as having a population of 5,976. I am sure that Ventnor was not amongst those towns with a much larger population.

Yes that's not a big town obviously! But of course the decision would balance population size with cost of line reinstatement, and the preceding posts have speculated that the latter would be low. Still a pipe-dream though I suspect...

 

[MarkyT]

One wonders how much it would actually cost to re-open to Ventnor. The formation is pretty clear apart from light industrial estates at the two station sites, and presumably the tunnel is still maintained. Comparatively speaking the cost would surely be fairly low.

Difficulty getting through Wroxall would not be so much the light industry on the trackbed but crossing the residential access roads built across the line to the south, although actually tracing a path between the houses themselves looks feasible. Castle Road bridge over the railway is still there but is a very narrow single lane affair with a difficult junctions onto the B3327 and is today closed to vehicular traffic. The necessity for level crossings and the proximity to housing in the vicinity suggests a light rail solution or single lane busway would be most appropriate.

Of course they did plan to build a funicular in Ventnor
http://www.iwhistory.org.uk/RM/funicularrailway/

But sadly never materialised

That's fascinating thanks. I have often thought some kind of lift would have been be useful to link the old station site to the shopping areas and seafront. Today I wonder if some kind of small rubber tired autonomous shuttle pod could achieve something similar on existing tarmac. That kind of technology might also provide a solution for the entire island rail network, using 'bus lanes' on the trackbed. The vehicles, being narrower than buses, might allow a double track network throughout to be achieved, with branches away from the rail alignment onto regular roads not only in Ventnor but elsewhere too.

 

[Rick1984]

Would've really been something going all the way up St. Boneface

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would've really been something going all the way up St. Boneface

I learn new saints names every year on this website and have never heard of St Boneface. Was he a Viking warrior monk?

Not too far removed from the Ventnor area in Bonchurch, there is a church that is dedicated to St Boniface.

 

[DelW]

One wonders how much it would actually cost to re-open to Ventnor. The formation is pretty clear apart from light industrial estates at the two station sites, and presumably the tunnel is still maintained. Comparatively speaking the cost would surely be fairly low.

Various sources state that the tunnel is now used by Southern Water for water supply to Ventnor. How much such pipe(s) might interfere with re-use for railway purposes isn't clear, but it probably depends on whether or not the ownership was transferred to SW.

 

[Rick1984]

I learn new saints names every year on this website and have never heard of St Boneface. Was he a Viking warrior monk?

Not too far removed from the Ventnor area in Bonchurch, there is a church that is dedicated to St Boniface.

Yeah spelling not my strong point!

 

[MarkyT]

Various sources state that the tunnel is now used by Southern Water for water supply to Ventnor. How much such pipe(s) might interfere with re-use for railway purposes isn't clear, but it probably depends on whether or not the ownership was transferred to SW.

Here's an image I found: http://www.rail.co.uk/images/8785/original/9-Inside-Ventnor-tunnel-Phil-Marsh.jpg

A smaller profile vehicle might be able to fit along with water pipes, relocated under the trackway surface perhaps.

There's a large water tank near the Ventnor portal, as can be seen in this Streetview:

 

[yorksrob]

Couldn't the pipe be relocated underneath the trackbed ? Infact, with tube diameter stock there appears to be ample room to raise the tunnel floor above the pipe.

 

[MarkyT]

Or pipes suspended from the roof above the trackway, like the Channel Tunnel service tunnel:
https://www.eurotunnelgroup.com/upl...he-Channel-Tunnel/The Channel Tunnel pic6.jpg

 

[yorksrob]

Or pipes suspended from the roof above the trackway, like the Channel Tunnel service tunnel:
https://www.eurotunnelgroup.com/uploadedImages/assets-uk/Tunnel-Infrastructure/Infrastructure/The-Channel-Tunnel/The Channel Tunnel pic6.jpg

Yes, that could be an alternative.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Here's an image I found: http://www.rail.co.uk/images/8785/original/9-Inside-Ventnor-tunnel-Phil-Marsh.jpg

A smaller profile vehicle might be able to fit along with water pipes, relocated under the trackway surface perhaps.

There's a large water tank near the Ventnor portal, as can be seen in this Streetview:

View attachment 36182

Approximately where would the edge of the platform had been in that photo?

 

[swt_passenger]

Approximately where would the edge of the platform had been in that photo?

Nowhere in that photo. The station was further south, details here:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/ventnor/index.shtml

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it not the case that the Southern Vectis number 3 bus as part of its route has a regular service, from early morning until late in the evening between Shanklin railway station and Ventnor that only takes 15 minutes or so for that journey. Surely that is not too difficult for onward travellers, when the comparative costs of railway line reinstatement are taken into consideration.

 

[A0]

Is it not the case that the Southern Vectis number 3 bus as part of its route has a regular service, from early morning until late in the evening between Shanklin railway station and Ventnor that only takes 15 minutes or so for that journey. Surely that is not too difficult for onward travellers, when the comparative costs of railway line reinstatement are taken into consideration.

As a long standing poster, you should surely know better than to post such common sense on forums around here.....

 

[Clip]

As a long standing poster, you should surely know better than to post such common sense on forums around here.....

Dont qorry he balances that qith nonsensical stuff too,especially when it comes to anything that isnt new on his patch.

But going back to hia post - how many people are put off from going there because you have to change on to a bus? We'll never know but people on this forum tell us that a journey with no changes is always preferable

 

[DelW]

But going back to hia post - how many people are put off from going there because you have to change on to a bus? We'll never know but people on this forum tell us that a journey with no changes is always preferable

A few years ago there was a dedicated bus service to and from Ventnor that was timed to connect with trains at Shanklin station. IIRC it was run by Stagecoach, and was of course at a time when Island Line was a Stagecoach subsidiary. Possibly they saw it as a way of getting a foothold on the island to compete with Vectis, but if so it didn't work, as I think the service only lasted a season or two.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Dont qorry he balances that qith nonsensical stuff too,especially when it comes to anything that isnt new on his patch.

But going back to hia post - how many people are put off from going there because you have to change on to a bus? We'll never know but people on this forum tell us that a journey with no changes is always preferable

The same bus runs to Ryde Esplanade, most people will do that rather than changing. Walking up the pier really isn't that unpleasant and a lot of people do - after all, people like walking on piers at seaside resorts for no reason, even when the weather is a bit rubbish.

 

[JohnRegular]

But going back to hia post - how many people are put off from going there because you have to change on to a bus? We'll never know but people on this forum tell us that a journey with no changes is always preferable

I accept I'm probably in a minority, but I am very put off if a change onto a bus is required. If I was trying to get to Ventnor, I'd sooner bring my bike on the train and cycle there from Shanklin than figure out bus timings & ticketing. On the other hand I don't mind changing from train to train, as it is easy to know where your connection departs from and it's all on one ticket.

It may well be mostly psychological, but I'd wager I'm far from the only one who feels this way.

 

[bramling]

I accept I'm probably in a minority, but I am very put off if a change onto a bus is required. If I was trying to get to Ventnor, I'd sooner bring my bike on the train and cycle there from Shanklin than figure out bus timings & ticketing. On the other hand I don't mind changing from train to train, as it is easy to know where your connection departs from and it's all on one ticket.

It may well be mostly psychological, but I'd wager I'm far from the only one who feels this way.

Yes. There are many people who will quite happily use a train, but wouldn't even consider taking a bus. I'd place a bet that 90% of my street have never used a local bus service.

 

[Rick1984]

If i was going to Vetnor I'd probably go Train- bus. Think you can get through ticket and the number 3 times to meet train.
Though to completely contradict myself always taken the bus

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Dont qorry he balances that qith nonsensical stuff too,especially when it comes to anything that isnt new on his patch.

But going back to hia post - how many people are put off from going there because you have to change on to a bus? We'll never know but people on this forum tell us that a journey with no changes is always preferable

OBSERVATIONS:-

What do the words "gorry" and "qith" mean in the first sentence?

What do you define as "my patch".

Why should people travelling by train as far as Shanklin be annoyed that the onward rail journey to Ventnor is no longer available. How many of these passengers will actually be aware that no such onwards service has not been available for the last 51 years?

 

[yorksrob]

OBSERVATIONS:-

What do the words "gorry" and "qith" mean in the first sentence?

What do you define as "my patch".

Why should people travelling by train as far as Shanklin be annoyed that the onward rail journey to Ventnor is no longer available. How many of these passengers will actually be aware that no such onwards service has not been available for the last 51 years?

I'm frequently angered that onward train services are no longer available to various destinations, even though the rail link went some time ago. Leigh Lancs is a frequent one for me, and Padstow is an annual one.

 

[Chris125]

Is it not the case that the Southern Vectis number 3 bus as part of its route has a regular service, from early morning until late in the evening between Shanklin railway station and Ventnor that only takes 15 minutes or so for that journey. Surely that is not too difficult for onward travellers, when the comparative costs of railway line reinstatement are taken into consideration.

For visitors from the mainland it's not just one change though - they've already had to make the connection with the ferry, and then another with the train at Ryde. A third change, onto a third mode of transport, in such a short distance is never going to appeal especially for those unfamiliar with the Island and it's buses, the elderly, those carrying luggage or travelling with children..

Alas the damage has been done and I can't see any realistic way the line could be reopened, but it's undoubtedly had a significant impact.

A few years ago there was a dedicated bus service to and from Ventnor that was timed to connect with trains at Shanklin station.

It was run by the IW Council and their Wightbus operation - another victim of local authority cuts.

The same bus runs to Ryde Esplanade, most people will do that rather than changing. Walking up the pier really isn't that unpleasant and a lot of people do - after all, people like walking on piers at seaside resorts for no reason, even when the weather is a bit rubbish.

A half mile walk along the pier, then a 1 hour 15 min bus ride (on a good day) - either way is far from convenient and for many won't be worth the hassle.

 

[Chris M]

Yes. There are many people who will quite happily use a train, but wouldn't even consider taking a bus. I'd place a bet that 90% of my street have never used a local bus service.

I lived for a while in Loughton, on the Essex-London border. In the ~2 years I was there I took a TfL bus innumerable times, I took a non-TfL bus once one way (to Epping hospital, on the way back I walked to Epping station and got the tube as I wasn't constrained for time).
The reason for the discrepancy was that with the TfL services I knew the exact amount a single ticket would cost me, didn't need to faff with change (let alone exact change like some operators), I knew the routes and route numbers had been stable for years and wouldn't change in the future without significant publicity and I knew the buses were guaranteed to be roadworthy and almost always in good condition.
Not a single one of those was true for the Essex buses (although not roadworthy would be an exaggeration, several buses were barely so). This colours people's perceptions of buses. In London I happily use buses without a second thought. Outside London even finding the cost of a single ticket from A to B is night on impossible in some places (most recent example, Luton). If I have to use a bus elsewhere in the country I will get a plus bus if I can, as while it might not be cheapest it's by far the simplest and I don't need to worry about which operator accepts which tickets on which routes.
I have once used buses on the IoW but it was in 1996 and experience of buses elsewhere in the country tells me that buses everywhere but London have got significantly worse since then. In 1996 our journey (from Sandown to the Needles) required a change in Newport that involved changing bus stops from one street to another with almost no helpful signage in place. I don't know if this is true for the island, but tourists will use their experience of mainland buses and opt for the train, which their experience will tell them is more spacious, better maintained, more reliable and significantly simpler.