Class 222: Why so much first class

[cactustwirly]

Why do Meridians have so much first class?
A 7 car set has 3x coaches of first class which is more than a 8 coach HST.
A 5 car set has almost 2 coaches of first.
A 4 car set has 1.5 coaches of First.
IMO this is very wasteful as its always empty (when I see it), and standard is busy.

 

[Kite159]

I agree with you, could do with a reduction so that the 4 & 5 coach sets have 1 coach of FC with the 7 coach sets going down to 2 coaches. Although that depends on the loading of FC for those peak time services to see if it will be worth while converting. Will put them in line with the 220/221s with only 1 coach of FC (and will stop the freeloaders jumping into the part SC/FC coach on a 5-coach unit to make use of the free WiFi )

 

[Domh245]

Not sure why there is so much, but there have been a number of occasions travelling between Nottingham and London where I've been able to go first class for only £3 or so more than standard class, so I'm not arguing!

 

[43074]

Why do Meridians have so much first class?
A 7 car set has 3x coaches of first class which is more than a 8 coach HST.
A 5 car set has almost 2 coaches of first.
A 4 car set has 1.5 coaches of First.
IMO this is very wasteful as its always empty (when I see it), and standard is busy.

First on peak services is generally very well used, that is where the revenue is and that will be the reason it hasn't been changed.

Also the 7-car sets were 9-cars when new, so had 3 coaches of First and 6 Standard which is more in line with a HST and not OTT compared to other intercity units.

 

[Master29]

Another point is they seem to have few standard seats as well on 222`s so the ratio standard-1st does seem rather high, although in truth they do offer fairly cheap first class which does counter things.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I don’t remember this being an issue under Midland Mainline? Does anyone remember how many first class coaches there were in a 9 car and 4 car 222s as they were built?

 

[jopsuk]

A while back I tried to quantify the Standard:first ratio, some of it is out of date but anyone can help update it here.

The 7 car 222s are pretty low ratio (though not as bad as the comedy that was the original 8-car Pendolino formation). The shorter formations aren't actually that bad on ratio, it's the total seating that's low.

 

[43074]

I don’t remember this being an issue under Midland Mainline? Does anyone remember how many first class coaches there were in a 9 car and 4 car 222s as they were built?

Same as there are in 5- and 7-car EMT sets at the moment, so actually almost half of an MML 4-car set was First Class. The 222/1 units (4-car ex Hull Trains sets) have less First Class than the ex MML units when they were 4-cars though, a more sensible balance.

 

[richieb1971]

I went to London yesterday and traveled on a 222 coming from St Pancras to Bedford. Although there were empty seats in 1st class, almost 3/4 were occupied. Although saying that the 2nd class coaches had lots of standing passengers. This was a 15:30 Nottingham train. I was actually surprised how rammed it was for that time of day. I thought we missed rush hour but it couldn't have been worse if we hit rush hour. The guard lady started shouting "Seats available" around Cricklewood and me and the wife got seated opposite each other.

 

[bramling]

I went to London yesterday and traveled on a 222 coming from St Pancras to Bedford. Although there were empty seats in 1st class, almost 3/4 were occupied. Although saying that the 2nd class coaches had lots of standing passengers. This was a 15:30 Nottingham train. I was actually surprised how rammed it was for that time of day. I thought we missed rush hour but it couldn't have been worse if we hit rush hour. The guard lady started shouting "Seats available" around Cricklewood and me and the wife got seated opposite each other.

The London and south-east ”rush hour” now runs from about 1500 through to 2000. This is what makes the south-east different from provincial towns and cities where there is still a heavy concentration on 1700-1800.

 

[richieb1971]

Making 1st class smaller will only present more problems then. The only option is to make the trains longer or have more trains. My outbound journey was a 2 stopper Thameslink service and it had fewer than 100 people on board a 8 car train. About half got off at St Pancras and it seemed a wasted train that was unprofitable. This review of EMT (in another thread) stopping at Bedford is interesting because 200+ people got off the rammed EMT train at Bedford leaving quite a lot of empty seats going north from there.