These terms are really not appropriate, and don't do anybody any favours.
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Newspaper article regarding supposed unfair treatment regarding ticket discrepancy.
- Thread starter voyagerdude220
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These terms are really not appropriate, and don't do anybody any favours.
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Jonfun
Established Member
A passenger telling fibs? Never!
70014IronDuke
Established Member
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- 13 Jun 2015
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- 4,089
1) May I ask (seriously) what is all this about "generation snowflake"?
I assume it is very recent expression, but though I could guess (lghtweight? superficial?) I have no idea what this means.
2) This subject is one of the most emotive on this board that I've seen.
Several people have said it is based on a biased and/or superficial media report.
Well, to a large extent, that is fair comment (on the report). But why is this so?
I suggest it is because the complainant is a) allowed to have free rein, probably something like 200 words of criticism and b) because the TOC issues a terse statement which says nothing other than 'we are investigating and making no other comment until that is complete'. (Sorry, this is not the absolute accurate quote, it's from what I've gleaned going through the thread. I can't be bothered to go back to the original.)
Everyone then blames the 'journalist' for bias. (Let's not forget the editor and publisher who are involved, and the dear public who are as quick to click as the publisher is keen to publish.)
Surely the TOC could, and should, make more effort to defend their side, the accused staff member.
Could they not include a line or two such as:
We certainly want to ensure our staff maintain a civil and customer friendly attitude at all times. And we find tha the vast majority of our customers acknowledge this effort in our surveys.
It is true that sometimes in incidents involving disputes over ticket validity, our investigations have revealed that there has been a misunderstanding of terms, and sometimes members of staff have been at fault. Having said that, in many such incidents our findings have shown that some customers have been using varous ploys to avoid paying the correct fare, and as a result kick up a fuss in order to defend their actions.
This all takes time and effort to resolve, and means that honest customers are being forced to pay more than necessary for their own fares, to balance these losses.
Please understand we investigate each incident on a case-by-case basis in order to ascertain the true nature of such disputes.
I am not a lawyer, so I accept that any such effort on the part of the TOCs might not work - but would like to know why not?
I assume it is very recent expression, but though I could guess (lghtweight? superficial?) I have no idea what this means.
2) This subject is one of the most emotive on this board that I've seen.
Several people have said it is based on a biased and/or superficial media report.
Well, to a large extent, that is fair comment (on the report). But why is this so?
I suggest it is because the complainant is a) allowed to have free rein, probably something like 200 words of criticism and b) because the TOC issues a terse statement which says nothing other than 'we are investigating and making no other comment until that is complete'. (Sorry, this is not the absolute accurate quote, it's from what I've gleaned going through the thread. I can't be bothered to go back to the original.)
Everyone then blames the 'journalist' for bias. (Let's not forget the editor and publisher who are involved, and the dear public who are as quick to click as the publisher is keen to publish.)
Surely the TOC could, and should, make more effort to defend their side, the accused staff member.
Could they not include a line or two such as:
We certainly want to ensure our staff maintain a civil and customer friendly attitude at all times. And we find tha the vast majority of our customers acknowledge this effort in our surveys.
It is true that sometimes in incidents involving disputes over ticket validity, our investigations have revealed that there has been a misunderstanding of terms, and sometimes members of staff have been at fault. Having said that, in many such incidents our findings have shown that some customers have been using varous ploys to avoid paying the correct fare, and as a result kick up a fuss in order to defend their actions.
This all takes time and effort to resolve, and means that honest customers are being forced to pay more than necessary for their own fares, to balance these losses.
Please understand we investigate each incident on a case-by-case basis in order to ascertain the true nature of such disputes.
I am not a lawyer, so I accept that any such effort on the part of the TOCs might not work - but would like to know why not?
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Maybe not, but given that it is ME that is the subject of this thread and seeminly judgement are being made against me without ascertaining the full facts them I am sure you will understand my frustration when i see my supposed actions behaviour and attitude being picked apart and elaborated upon in the name of speculation.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
post deleted following admin and BTP advice
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If I were you I would refrain from posting again about it until your investigation has been completed - you don't want to get anymore focus on yourself and possibly in the media again through posting on here as you don't know who is reading this and who may be malicious enough to get you further in bother from doing so
I
I'm on your side. Can clearly see what has happened. Didn't like the response so starts crying and puts it on social media
Obey the rules.
I'm on your side. Can clearly see what has happened. Didn't like the response so starts crying and puts it on social media
Obey the rules.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Thanks 
Appreciate that
Appreciate that
70014IronDuke
Established Member
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Ah. Thank you. I must live a sheltered life
I wish you a full and fair hearing, and trust that you get the correct decisions in the enquiry.
Thanks
Appreciate that
As I do the same job as you for Northern, I can safely say that the incident you encountered is by no means unique. It never ceases to amaze me just how many pax try it on with a railcard.
I'm sure plenty try it on, but I think there's also a chasm between some staff and (I suspect) most passengers when it comes to "reasonableness".
I can easily imagine a passenger in such circumstances thinking "I'll explain the situation on the train and I'm sure it will be fine. If necessary I'll pay the difference but they'll probably be reasonable". As briefly mentioned in the OP, it's not immediately obvious that travelling with one fewer passenger than expected will render all the tickets invalid in the first place (I accept that this is true, but I don't understand why). And while "read the terms and conditions" is a sensible comment on the face of it, I can imagine reading the T&Cs on purchase of the card, but not necessarily remembering their relevance later in the circumstances described. (And let's not forget that reading the terms and conditions is also something that pretty much everyone in advanced economies fails to do on a fairly regular basis, including everyone reading this post).
A lot of people are not fully aware of the vast regulatory framework that surrounds the rail industry. I imagine it's a bit of a surprise to board a train expecting the sort of flexibility in customer service that you'd typically get in a shop, only to be told that not only are your tickets invalid, but that you have to buy new ones rather than just paying the difference.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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- 3 Feb 2013
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- 24,776
Given what we do know about what happened, I think it is reasonable to assume that there was slightly more wrong than simply being short of 1 child. The first thing needed to be "paying the difference" is a valid railcard, and I strongly suspect that one of those was rather lacking in this case, hence the confiscation.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Buy online and you think you've got away with it or innocently don't realise you've made a mistake as there's no one there to correctly enforce/ihelp nterpret the rules. Every website I've seen defaults to adult yet I've seen TOD collectors getting child tickets several times that are clearly over 16.
Absolutely correct, in my experience the hardware may be different, the display may vary, but every ticket machine or internet purchase enquiry defaults to 'ADULT SINGLE' unless the user chooses another ticket type and before the ticket will be issued, the display prompts the user to 'CONFIRM' that this is the correct choice
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Certainly is the case with the ticket machine at Caersws, which I presume is typical of most others.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Its very easy to buy something your not entitled to on the internet/TVM v an awake booking clerk/conductor! gimmea50anyday should know if they were internet bought tickets or not and how out of date the railcard was.
Of course it is easy to miss your renewal date esp if you buy online as your clicking a button not physically showing something to another person, its easy to think Ive got the railcard but woudl you check the date? Given the lady in question has made no mention of "I innocently let my railcard expire by 2 days" I suspect shes glossed this side of the story over for obvious reasons.....
Of course it is easy to miss your renewal date esp if you buy online as your clicking a button not physically showing something to another person, its easy to think Ive got the railcard but woudl you check the date? Given the lady in question has made no mention of "I innocently let my railcard expire by 2 days" I suspect shes glossed this side of the story over for obvious reasons.....
The Guard in question is very pro-customer and offers excellent customer service. It was me who invited him to join this forum in person.
There are a minority of passengers on this route who behave in an obnoxious way; sometimes (in fact the majority of my ex-Manchester journeys on an evening) there is no visible staff presence to deal with them. Not in the case of this Guard. He does his best to walk through the train, no matter how challenging the circumstances, and doesn't hide. He looks after the genuine passengers and is passionate about that. I have witnessed passengers misbehaving and mistreating him and his passengers on other occasions and backed him up.
This is not a case of a passenger being mistreated by the Guard. I know that does sometimes happens (though very rarely in the case of TPE; most of their Guards do an absolutely fantastic job of looking after customers) but there is no way that happened here. Trust me on that.
There are a minority of passengers on this route who behave in an obnoxious way; sometimes (in fact the majority of my ex-Manchester journeys on an evening) there is no visible staff presence to deal with them. Not in the case of this Guard. He does his best to walk through the train, no matter how challenging the circumstances, and doesn't hide. He looks after the genuine passengers and is passionate about that. I have witnessed passengers misbehaving and mistreating him and his passengers on other occasions and backed him up.
This is not a case of a passenger being mistreated by the Guard. I know that does sometimes happens (though very rarely in the case of TPE; most of their Guards do an absolutely fantastic job of looking after customers) but there is no way that happened here. Trust me on that.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Having experienced passengers rounding on other passengers because of their appalling behavior to staff I can confirm this does happen.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
you are probably right. Post amended.
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