Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[90019]

Theyve been worked hard and not looked after.

They're actually in pretty good condition and fairly well looked after.

The buses get a battering on the atrocious road surfaces around the city, so it's no wonder they feel a bit worn out after 13 years of hard work.

 

[duffers2324]

Agreed there is a stark contrast to a Glasgow Trident and a Lothian buses one and i know for sure which one i would rather be on despite their age and such although unfortunately i am usually subject to First Glasgow Tridents, rock hard seats, lack of suspension and generally mucky inside and out.

 

[mde]

Agreed there is a stark contrast to a Glasgow Trident and a Lothian buses one and i know for sure which one i would rather be on despite their age and such although unfortunately i am usually subject to First Glasgow Tridents, rock hard seats, lack of suspension and generally mucky inside and out.

Can't that be said for much of First Glasgow's fleet, unfortunately? Anything past a year or two on the clock seems to develop a particularly strong layer of filth that never seems to be cleared…

I do laugh when a Gemini with eLeather seats turns up - it's like lipstick on a pig unfortunately as that's about the only thing on the bus that is in a semi presentable state.

The chronic lack of investment in basic presentation standards in their fleet doesn't do their image any good when continuing to put prices up on such a regular basis (while persistently adjusting service frequency / complaining about subsidised routes) that it's no wonder they have a bad reputation.

Incidentally - if you think the suspension on a Lothian trident is a bit crud, try riding one round the Heriot-Watt campus, especially if you are lucky enough to encounter one on the 34 (so you have the full experience of Research Avenue North, Boundary Road North, Boundary Road East, and then just a hint of The Avenue) - those speed bumps are clearly a gift from satan himself. Just wait until the tourists at the new Marriott have to experience them!

 

[alex397]

I spent a few days in Edinburgh this week, and I manged to experience some of Edinburgh's transport network.

The fleet appears very modern and very clean, with excellent frequencies, good drivers, and comfortable seats. It was easy to navigate the city, with good timetable information, and a good network map. I'm even tempted to say it was better than the London network - buses in London do not seem as impressive or so comfortable to travel on. London buses tend to be filthy inside and out. Good to see so many tourists using the buses too.
One thing I wasn't keen on was the 'exact change only' policy - it seems very old fashioned in this day and age. It wouldn't be so much of an issue if all buses accepted contactless card payment like the Airlink buses. However, I do appreciate the benefits of exact fare only, speeding up boarding times and makes life easier for drivers. Also, most people used smart cards anyway - but I think it puts off first-time/casual users and tourists. I did find the £1.60 flat fare and £4.00 day ticket incredibly good value. I live in a much smaller place, and the day ticket is more expensive and doesn't cover such a good area.

I was disappointed that new buses just have basic destination displays, with just ultimate destination and number, like they do in London (although London appears to be putting a little more detail back on again). I found the old blinds very smart and impressive - number, destination and three 'via' points, all clear to read - its a shame its gradually disappearing. Although less smart, I found the buses which were a few years old with the digital displays which featured via points a good compromise, but doesn't look like any new buses will have displays like that.

The trams were impressive too - although, one of the days had two separate incidents of broken down coaches blocking the tracks which meant It was easier for me to walk. It seems a shame that after all that time, money and effort, there is just one tram route, which hardly makes a difference to Edinburgh city as a whole. From the airport, I caught the Airlink bus into the city, and the tram back. The Airlink bus was £1 cheaper, had a quicker journey time, was more comfortable, contactless payment on bus, and better views of the city. I won't bother with the tram for transport to the airport next time.

I also had a ride on an East Coast Buses route, with one of the brand new Wright single deckers - I was very impressed with the next-stop information, very comfortable seats and the roof windows - no wonder the East Coast services were so busy!

Its good to see that First and Stagecoach are very small in comparison to Lothian. My experience of large cities with many different operators is not good - with various tickets etc. So I hope it stays the same in Edinburgh!

So, I was very impressed with my experience, and would like to try out their network again!.

 

[overthewater]

Its good to see that First and Stagecoach are very small in comparison to Lothian. My experience of large cities with many different operators is not good - with various tickets etc. So I hope it stays the same in Edinburgh! So, I was very impressed with my experience, and would like to try out their network again!.

First only really deals with West lothian routes now and there been overhauled with all brand new vehicles. Stagecoach still goes Lothian a very good run for its money on the Queensferry road corridor, even thought it give up 40/a, People still use stagecoach to get up to Barton.

 

[90019]

It wouldn't be so much of an issue if all buses accepted contactless card payment like the Airlink buses.

The whole fleet should have had the new Wayfarers that can do contactless months ago. I don't know what the delay is, but I hope they turn up soon, because the old ones are falling to bits.

I was disappointed that new buses just have basic destination displays, with just ultimate destination and number, like they do in London (although London appears to be putting a little more detail back on again). I found the old blinds very smart and impressive - number, destination and three 'via' points, all clear to read - its a shame its gradually disappearing. Although less smart, I found the buses which were a few years old with the digital displays which featured via points a good compromise, but doesn't look like any new buses will have displays like that.

The Mobitec LED screens have had lots of issues, especially with the brightness, making some of them pretty much unreadable on a bright day. I think the support for them hasn't been good either, so the decision was made to change to Hanover screens instead, which don't have the via screen.
I'm not especially keen on them, as they look cheap and nasty when retrofitted to the older buses, but they look alright on the new ones.
The sizing, spacing and kerning on some of the routes and destinations could do with a bit of work, though.

Personally, my favorites are the 11 plate B9s with proper blinds on the front and LEDs on the side and rear screens.

 

[cactustwirly]

What screens do First and Arriva use on their geminis, here in Leicester they're able to scroll 3 via points

 

[route101]

What screens do First and Arriva use on their geminis, here in Leicester they're able to scroll 3 via points

old first ones in Glasgow used to go via Bridgton via burnside , they only on 53 plate geminis now on 18 mostly . Now they scroll continuously

 

[ejstubbs]

I noticed this morning the driver of one of the new (hybrid?) number 26 buses getting out of his cab to fold down a ramp for a wheelchair user wishing to alight. Unfortunately it was in the middle of the Haymarket Terrace roadworks so some traffic was inevitably delayed, but (for a change) everyone behaved in a very civilised manner about it, and the procedure was carried out and the passenger safely disembarked very efficiently. In fact it seemed, based solely on that one encounter, to be rather slicker than the grindingly slow self-deploying ramps with the awful warning siren that have been retro-fitted to the older buses in the Lothian fleet.

Is the use of manually deployed ramps a conscious change for new buses on LB's part, or is it just a quirk of the design of these particular new ones?

 

[Observer]

Manual ramps are the new fleet standard as of the 2017 order, a lot easier to maintain than electrical ramps.

I would assume that if any electrical ramps fail from now on they will be replaced with manual ramps.

 

[Alex 2901]

What screens do First and Arriva use on their geminis, here in Leicester they're able to scroll 3 via points

Hanover, although the two are very differently formatted.

 

[90019]

Is the use of manually deployed ramps a conscious change for new buses on LB's part, or is it just a quirk of the design of these particular new ones?

New buses will be getting manual ramps because they're cheap.

 

[oldman]

I notice that the stickers on the front of the buses showing the fares are disappearing, so I guess an increase is pending.

 

[christopherrfc]

Noticed on vosa there is changes for the east coast buses in February changes include

New 140 service from Penicuik to Musselburgh

New 139 service from Midlothian hospital to Parkhurst loan

And new night service N113

 

[overthewater]

Let clear that up All East coast buses have service changes for 25th February. Those new services are DIRECT replacements for Lothian bus service 39 and 40 which must be getting moved depots to free up space, 140 number is the number used by First for many years ( since 1999 changes?) im sure it was number 74 before that?

• PM1050765/32 Registered
  EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED
  Route: Penicuik Town Centre to Tesco, Musselburgh via Loanhead, Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Whitecraig
  Service number: 140
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 25 Feb 2018
  
  
• PM1050765/31 Registered
  EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED
  Route: Midlothian Community Hospital to Woodburn, Parkhurst Loan via Eskbank, Dalkeith
  Service number: 139
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 26 Feb 2018
  

 

[oldman]

Do ECB buses sell the £4 LB day ticket on their buses. On their website they say in the small print the LB ticket is valid, but not that they sell it. It would be daft if they didn't sell it, but there is a lot of daftness around.

 

[overthewater]

There service changes ( some improvements and cuts...... over there is cuts to the number of buses on the road) there fare increase.

https://lothianbuses.co.uk/news/article/changes-to-our-services-from-25-february

FARES:
A fare review will also see some of our fares increasing for the first time in two years. Adult single tickets will increase 10p to £1.70 and the Lothian Country 2 zone fare will increase to £2.70. Adult and Student Ridacards, which were last increased in 2015 will also see an increase. Fares for all Daytickets, Child singles and Child Ridacards will remain the same, as will Airport and Nightbus fares. Details of all revised fares can be found here. OR down at the bottom:

From Sunday 25 February, we will be making a number of changes to our services following feedback from customers, community councils and stakeholders.

Midlothian commuters in particular are set to benefit from quicker journeys as additional express buses are introduced to services X31, X33 and X37.

Other highlights include:

• Service 18 to operate later evening journeys and more capacity at peak times following customer feedback.
• Service 3 will be re-routed along Melville Road, avoiding traffic congestion on the A7 to reduce journey times.
• Services 39 and 40 will be operated by EastCoastBuses as services 139 and 140.
• Service 21 will run with double-deckers to meet growing customer demand along the route (no change to timetable).
• A new Monday to Friday journey will be introduced on service N31 meaning all our Nightbus services will operate 7 days a week.
• Lothian Country 43/X43 is extend to Ferrymuir Retail Park at all times Monday to Saturday following requests from Queensferry Community Council and customers in new housing developments in the area.

Full service change details:

Service 3
Revised route & timetable. Buses will revert back to the pre-April 2017 route at Eskbank via Melville Road to avoid traffic queues on the A7. This change is introduced after feedback from our regular customers.

Service 5 ***CUT***
Monday to Friday daytime frequency will be reduced from every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes.

Service 10
Revised route at Western Harbour with buses now operating via Sandpiper Road due to the long term closure of Newhaven Place. Minor timetable revisions including an additional later journey to and from Bonaly on Mondays to Saturdays, following feedback from Colinton Community Council.

Service 15/X15
Minor timetable changes to the morning peak timetable to introduce an additional journey from Tollcross to Easter Bush to provide more capacity for the Vet School and Pentland Science Park after feedback from our customers.

Service 18
Revised timetable introduced after feedback from regular customers. These changes will address reliability issues and additional peak journeys will improve capacity. A later evening journey introduced from the Gyle and the Fort on Mondays to Saturdays. Earlier Sunday morning journey introduced to and from Fort Kinnaird.

Service 19 ***CUT***
Monday to Friday daytime frequency reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes. Peak enhancement will continue at busy times to and from Granton.

Service 29 ***CUT***
Revised timetable introduced with most Monday to Friday daytime journeys operating Silverknowes to Gorebridge. As a result, the off-peak frequency reduces from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes. On Sundays, a later evening service will operate to and from Gorebridge to match the Monday to Saturday timetable. Minor changes to the Saturday timetable.

Service X31
Revised timetable introduced with one additional journey introduced in both peaks to increase capacity after feedback from regular customers.

Service X33
Revised morning timetable with one additional journey introduced to increase capacity after feedback from regular customers.

Services 37/X37 & 47/X47
On Mondays to Fridays a revised early morning timetable is introduced to improve reliability. During the morning peak, one 37 journey is converted to operate as X37 to provide additional capacity after feedback from regular customers. Minor timetable changes on Saturdays & Sundays.

Service 39
WITHDRAWN and replaced by NEW ECB 139 on same route and timetable.

Service 40
WITHDRAWN and replaced by NEW ECB 140 on a revised route & timetable.

Service 42
Revised timetable to improve reliability. Service extended to and from Craigleith later into the evening on Mondays to Saturdays, however, late evening journeys between the City Centre and Portobello are withdrawn due to low levels of customer demand. Minor timetable changes on Sundays, but no change to the number of journeys operated.

Service 43/X43
Revised morning and afternoon peak timetable introduced on Mondays to Fridays with a slightly enhanced frequency in order to provide additional capacity after feedback from Queensferry Communicty Council and local councillors. ALL Monday to Saturday journeys on the 43 & X43 will now operate through Ferrymuir Retail Park. In the evenings, an additional journey from the City Centre at 2045 will maintain the 30 minute frequency for an extra hour. The X43 stopping pattern is slightly amended with buses now observing all stops between Barnton and Clermiston Road North in both directions. Minor changes to the Sunday timetable, but buses will not serve Ferrymuir Retail Park.

Service 69
Revised route and minor changes to timetable. Buses will revert back to the pre-April 2017 route direct via Portobello Road. Wakefield Avenue / Fillyside and Craigentinny Avenue will no longer be served due to very low levels of customer demand.

Service 300
Minor timetable changes to slightly reduce morning peak frequency between Fountainbridge and Ingliston P&R. Earlier morning journey introduced from Ocean Terminal to Edinburgh Airport on Saturdays and Sundays. Buses will now serve RBS Gogarburn during Saturday and Sunday daytime.

Service N31
Revised timetable with a NEW Monday to Friday morning journey introduced from the City Centre to Bonnyrigg at 0030. Saturday & Sunday morning journeys will now be operated by single deck vehicles to better reflect levels of customer demand.

Service N44
Revised route and timetable introduced. Buses will now operate between the City Centre and Balerno. The route to Musselburgh, Wallyford and Tranent will now be covered by new ECB Service N113.

Services with minor timetable changes:
1, 12, X12, 15, X15, 20, 22, 23, 24, 25, X25, 26, X29, 30, 33, 36, 44, X44, 47, X47 and 49.

EAST COAST BUSES:

https://eastcoastbuses.co.uk/improvements-to-our-bus-services/

Improvements to our Bus Services

We will be making changes and improvements to your services from 25 February.

These changes will offer a wide range of enhanced connections and improved reliability for our customers. We will also be taking steps to provide further capacity on key routes in East Lothian and will continue to increase capacity levels on all services over the coming months.

Following feedback from our customers, Service 107 will be renumbered X7 reflecting the express nature of the service and additional journeys will be introduced at peak times to provide more capacity for the increasing customer demand. We will also be extending the route of our Service 106 from Musselburgh to Fort Kinnaird Shopping Centre creating better links to the retail park from East Lothian.

Services 139 and 140, previously Lothian 39 and 40, will become part East Coast Buses, introducing our popular buses to Midlothian.

We will also have a new NightHawk service, N113 running between Edinburgh City Centre and Ormiston 7 days a week building on the success of our current NightHawk network.

From this date, Adult single tickets will increase by 10p. Fares for Daytickets, Child singles and m-ticket bundles will remain the same. Adult and Student Ridacards will also see an increase with Child Ridacards remaining unchanged. Ridacards will become valid for travel on all NightHawk services within their respective zones. Ridacards will become valid for travel on all NightHawk services in zone A and zone B (zone C and zone D Ridacards will be valid in zone C and zone D respectively). Details of all revised fares.

Mark Heritage, General Manager of EastCoastBuses said:
We are delighted that we can once again offer further new and improved services for our customers. Over the last 18 months we have recorded recorded customer growth of 30% in and round East Lothian, bucking the National trend of bus usage decline. This is a credit to our workforce who deliver a great travel experience for our customers everyday and we hope to continue to build on this success in 2018.

To allow us to continue to invest in your bus network, your fleet and our people and with the growth in inflation a fare review was required for some of our products. Our fares continue to offer great value for money for the residents and visitors of East Lothian and are still amongst the lowest in the UK, with the hugely popular County and CountyPlus Dayticket prices being held at £5 and £7.50.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still very reasonable.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

From what I can gather from these changes (in operational terms) service 25 will now operate from the Marine depot instead of Longstone and the 44 will now operate exclusively from Longstone instead of the Longstone / Marine split operation which is currently in place.

 

[overthewater]

From what I can gather from these changes (in operational terms) service 25 will now operate from the Marine depot instead of Longstone and the 44 will now operate exclusively from Longstone instead of the Longstone / Marine split operation which is currently in place.

It also been said Single decker on 21 will swap over with the deckers on 49. How much spare free is being created at marine ?

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Yes I was trying to work that out. The 5 and 19 are being reduced so that frees up some capacity but I assume some double deckers will need to be transferred over to cope with the 21 and 25 services.

 

[overthewater]

On top of that lothian are now bring up Ex London B9 Stock. I wonder if all the tridents are heading for the sale room?

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I may have got that wrong. The 44 looks like it will still operate from two depots. Not sure how it will all work. Will need to wait and see.

 

[overthewater]

BIG news incase your mist it, Lothian have 50 ex London Wrightbus Gemini E5 Deckers, which will be refurbished removing of centre doors, air con etc with new seating, wood flooring and USB being fitted. Plaxton Tridents and B7TLs will be taking out of service. For some unknown reason Edinburgh news hasn't got all the facts....

 

[Lothian_Bus]

BIG news incase your mist it, Lothian have 50 ex London Wrightbus Gemini E5 Deckers, which will be refurbished removing of centre doors, air con etc with new seating, wood flooring and USB being fitted. Plaxton Tridents and B7TLs will be taking out of service. For some unknown reason Edinburgh news hasn't got all the facts....

I wonder what services these will go on.

 

[oldman]

I guess that will replace the buses with decent legroom, which the new regime don't like. They'll probably put them on the 16 to annoy me.

 

[OmniCity999]

Following on from above.

Official release from Lothian to an enthusiast group. Lothian now have a member of staff that liaises between the company and the enthusiast group, creating a close relationship.

Here's the internal statement they are putting/have put out...

"We have acquired 50 ex London Wright bus Gemini Euro 5 Double Deckers for our business, these will help in removing Euro 3 Plaxton President Dennis Tridents and Wright bus Gemini 1 Volvo B7TLs from the fleet during 2018, along with additional new vehicle deliveries through the year and meeting our BUS2020 strategy and target of a fleet operating only at Euro 5 or above including diesel hybrid and pure electric.

As you might expect they will be refurbished to Lothian’s exacting standards including the removal of centre doors, air chill units and associated equipment.

High back Lazzerini seats will be fitted along with USB’s, wood effect flooring as seen on our recent new buses, along with replacement energy efficient LED internal lighting, white LED Destination displays and front wheelchair ramps.

Watch this space for pictures of the refurbishments, more information on route allocation and fleet numbers as things progress..."

A large amount of new buses is due this year including but not limited to:
5 X Wright StreetAir Electric Single Deckers
20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (Hybirds - Like those on the 300 and 34)
25 x Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (Standard diesel buses, like those on the 22,26,100,200 etc)

More doubles may be due and some singles may also be due, to replace the early 100's. These new arrivals and used London stock will kill off the Tridents and make a huge dent in the cull of the B7TL's. Lothian's B7's are numbered 701-825.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I'm presuming most of these ex-London deckers are the huge batch of B9TL/Geminis that Metroline withdrew a few months ago after they lost the 18. They were new to First Centrewest, so I guess 17 years after the Edinburgh bus war in 2001 First have finally made an inroad into Lothian, just not in the way we thought.

Sounds like my trip to Edinburgh last year was in the nick of time to travel on their Tridents.

 

[OmniCity999]

I'm presuming most of these ex-London deckers are the huge batch of B9TL/Geminis that Metroline withdrew a few months ago after they lost the 18. They were new to First Centrewest, so I guess 17 years after the Edinburgh bus war in 2001 First have finally made an inroad into Lothian, just not in the way we thought.

Sounds like my trip to Edinburgh last year was in the nick of time to travel on their Tridents.

Possibly - although to look at, you wont know they were ex First or Metroline buses. They will however look drastically different to Edinburgh's current B9's.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Following on from above.

Official release from Lothian to an enthusiast group. Lothian now have a member of staff that liaises between the company and the enthusiast group, creating a close relationship.

Here's the internal statement they are putting/have put out...

"We have acquired 50 ex London Wright bus Gemini Euro 5 Double Deckers for our business, these will help in removing Euro 3 Plaxton President Dennis Tridents and Wright bus Gemini 1 Volvo B7TLs from the fleet during 2018, along with additional new vehicle deliveries through the year and meeting our BUS2020 strategy and target of a fleet operating only at Euro 5 or above including diesel hybrid and pure electric.

As you might expect they will be refurbished to Lothian’s exacting standards including the removal of centre doors, air chill units and associated equipment.

High back Lazzerini seats will be fitted along with USB’s, wood effect flooring as seen on our recent new buses, along with replacement energy efficient LED internal lighting, white LED Destination displays and front wheelchair ramps.

Watch this space for pictures of the refurbishments, more information on route allocation and fleet numbers as things progress..."

A large amount of new buses is due this year including but not limited to:
5 X Wright StreetAir Electric Single Deckers
20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (Hybirds - Like those on the 300 and 34)
25 x Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (Standard diesel buses, like those on the 22,26,100,200 etc)

More doubles may be due and some singles may also be due, to replace the early 100's. These new arrivals and used London stock will kill off the Tridents and make a huge dent in the cull of the B7TL's. Lothian's B7's are numbered 701-825.

Interesting.

I am guessing service 31 will be one of the routes to get new buses. Harder to predict the others but maybe the 37 and 44 would be contenders.