Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

[highspeed990]

And you really expect people to take you seriously?

Would you like to explain why we can't?

 

[najaB]

Would you like to explain why we can't?

Where do you propose we get the dozens/hundreds of highly-skilled people who would be needed to staff this organisation? It's not like they're lined up at the dole office. And are we going to magic up the facilities overnight? And I suppose it will be a trifle to create the thousands of rules, regulations and standards in a flash?

 

[DarloRich]

Where do you propose we get the dozens/hundreds of highly-skilled people who would be needed to staff this organisation? It's not like they're lined up at the dole office. And are we going to magic up the facilities overnight? And I suppose it will be a trifle to create the thousands of rules, regulations and standards in a flash?

we don't need any of that. We are taking back control.

 

[nlogax]

Would you like to explain why we can't?

No disrespect intended, but statements like these are the reason we got into this mess to begin with. An entire campaign based upon reductionist BS and over-simplified fluff with no acknowledgement of the complexity or REALITY of the situation or the various factors involved. "Why can't we do this?" and similar phrases are not enough. They're not viable alternatives without a plan.

Come up with a way of doing these things, come up with a serious rationale, come up with some hard and fast facts to back up your vague notions and maybe your arguments will be taken more seriously. You absolutely cannot continue to debate based upon fluffy ideas and wishes unless you can back them up with detail.

The status quo inside the EU is a known thing. There are frameworks, numbers, facts, evidence. It's not enough to jump from that to an unknown without a solid plan. "Why not?" is not enough. You'll need to provide more than that.

 

[najaB]

we don't need any of that. We are taking back control.

Oh, right. Sorry.

 

[DarloRich]

Oh, right. Sorry.

I am getting the hang of this Brexit thing: When confronted with a difficult problem just use a meaningless phrase and when challenged stick you fingers in your ears and chant lalalalalala!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Where do you propose we get the dozens/hundreds of highly-skilled people who would be needed to staff this organisation? It's not like they're lined up at the dole office. And are we going to magic up the facilities overnight? And I suppose it will be a trifle to create the thousands of rules, regulations and standards in a flash?

I am forever hearing that we have qualified engineers, scientists, economists, business leaders, safety experts, rocket scientists, magic bean producers and unicorns just waiting in the dole line for a time when we leave the EU and they will be able to get jobs again.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I am getting the hang of this Brexit thing: When confronted with a difficult problem just use a meaningless phrase and when challenged stick you fingers in your ears and chant lalalalalala!

I sometimes shout FREEDOM in a scottish accent to help my point along. Its a useful trick.

 

[DarloRich]

I sometimes shout FREEDOM in a scottish accent to help my point along. Its a useful trick.

Can we transfer techniques used in the Scottish Independence referendum? Is that allowed?

 

[nlogax]

I am forever hearing that we have qualified engineers, scientists, economists, business leaders, safety experts, rocket scientists, magic bean producers and unicorns just waiting in the dole line for a time when we leave the EU and they will be able to get jobs again.

Hell yeah, I'm so looking forward to March 2019 so we can have our unicorns back. Bloody EU elfin' safety laws.

 

[highspeed990]

No disrespect intended, but statements like these are the reason we got into this mess to begin with. An entire campaign based upon reductionist BS and over-simplified fluff with no acknowledgement of the complexity or REALITY of the situation or the various factors involved. "Why can't we do this?" and similar phrases are not enough. They're not viable alternatives without a plan.

Come up with a way of doing these things, come up with a serious rationale, come up with some hard and fast facts to back up your vague notions and maybe your arguments will be taken more seriously. You absolutely cannot continue to debate based upon fluffy ideas and wishes unless you can back them up with detail.

The status quo inside the EU is a known thing. There are frameworks, numbers, facts, evidence. It's not enough to jump from that to an unknown without a solid plan. "Why not?" is not enough. You'll need to provide more than that.

I said that because najaB initially gave no reason. I couldn't care less if I'm not taken seriously, you must prove why I shouldn't be taken seriously.

If you were in a brexiteer dominated thread, you would not be taken seriously perhaps. This is why ad hominems are ultimately pointless.

 

[nlogax]

I said that because najaB initially gave no reason. I couldn't care less if I'm not taken seriously, you must prove why I shouldn't be taken seriously.

If you were in a brexiteer dominated thread, you would not be taken seriously perhaps. This is why ad hominems are ultimately pointless.

If I were in a Brexiteer dominated thread, I would have solid facts and evidence to back up my reasoning. Whereas you..well.

 

[WelshBluebird]

you must prove why I shouldn't be taken seriously.

Ignoring the irony of you asking other people to provide proof, here are two reasons:

1. Because you say meaningless statements like "No need to worry, it will be."
2. Because you claim that we can set up an equivalent to the EASA right now, totally ignoring the time, money, effort, resources and employees needed for such an agency.

 

[cactustwirly]

Ignoring the irony of you asking other people to provide proof, here are two reasons:

1. Because you say meaningless statements like "No need to worry, it will be."
2. Because you claim that we can set up an equivalent to the EASA right now, totally ignoring the time, money, effort, resources and employees needed for such an agency.

It will take between 5-10 years and a serious amount of cash to make our own EASA

 

[highspeed990]

Ignoring the irony of you asking other people to provide proof, here are two reasons:

1. Because you say meaningless statements like "No need to worry, it will be."
2. Because you claim that we can set up an equivalent to the EASA right now, totally ignoring the time, money, effort, resources and employees needed for such an agency.

It is not a meaningless statement, and I've explained why we will have a good deal. You lot have been making meanless insults so don't be a hypocrite.

If I were in a Brexiteer dominated thread, I would have solid facts and evidence to back up my reasoning. Whereas you..well.

The article below explains that it will take a long time to make our own organisation, however it also explains that leaving the EU doesn't mean we have to leave the EASA as 4 non EU countries are members.

 

[highspeed990]

If I were in a Brexiteer dominated thread, I would have solid facts and evidence to back up my reasoning. Whereas you..well.

But you could still be ridiculed. In your eyes, you are right, but you would be ridiculed. You are doing the same to me, but I don't care, as I understand human behaviour, and that it's convenient to gang up and belittle a sole opponent, however while behaviour can change the facts remain the same.

 

[highspeed990]

Ignoring the irony of you asking other people to provide proof, here are two reasons:

1. Because you say meaningless statements like "No need to worry, it will be."
2. Because you claim that we can set up an equivalent to the EASA right now, totally ignoring the time, money, effort, resources and employees needed for such an agency.

I have provided a link that backs up 2 points I've made so far, what about you?

 

[cactustwirly]

I have provided a link that backs up 2 points I've made so far, what about you?

Not all points!
You said we will be able to build an EASA equivalent easily, where's your source for that?
You also said that there are countries queuing up to trade with us, which countries are these?

Tbh the second source you gave was pretty poor, you did say that sources should be unbiased.

 

[highspeed990]

Not all points!
You said we will be able to build an EASA equivalent easily, where's your source for that?
You also said that there are countries queuing up to trade with us, which countries are these?

Tbh the second source you gave was pretty poor, you did say that sources should be unbiased.

I mentioned it was a pro brexit link as a disclaimer. And my mistake, I forgot to include a link:
http://www.mro-network.com/safety-regulatory/easa-after-brexit

 

[highspeed990]

It takes too long to make our own, and I didn't know, but we don't have to leave.

 

[cactustwirly]

It takes too long to make our own, and I didn't know, but we don't have to leave.

If we walk out with no deal then we leave EASA!
However if we're willing to pay for it and accept ECJ rules then we might be able to stay.

 

[highspeed990]

If we walk out with no deal then we leave EASA!
However if we're willing to pay for it and accept ECJ rules then we might be able to stay.

That won't happen and I've shown why. We should tell them where to stick it if they try making demands. Basically if we get hurt, they get hurt more, it sounds childish but it is true.

 

[Jonny]

That won't happen and I've shown why. We should tell them where to stick it if they try making demands. Basically if we get hurt, they get hurt more, it sounds childish but it is true.

Exactly. It will also sere the EU (as a corporate body) right for being a barsteward.

 

[cactustwirly]

That won't happen and I've shown why. We should tell them where to stick it if they try making demands. Basically if we get hurt, they get hurt more, it sounds childish but it is true.

That's totally going to work...
We're mighty Britain so the EU will just bow down to us!

Get real! The EU will then just tell us to get lost and we'll get no trade deal, and no flights for 5 years.
The EU holds most of the cards in these negotiations.

 

[highspeed990]

Exactly. It will also sere the EU (as a corporate body) right for being a barsteward.

???

 

[najaB]

Basically if we get hurt, they get hurt more, it sounds childish but it is true.

Using the EASA as an example - how, precisely, does the UK leaving without a deal hurt the EU more than it hurts the UK?

 

[highspeed990]

That's totally going to work...
We're mighty Britain so the EU will just bow down to us!

Get real! The EU will then just tell us to get lost and we get no trade deal, and no flights for 5 years.
The EU holds most of the cards

Yes actually, and I try not to dismiss people's arguments as being ridiculous, but do you really think Britain is going to have no flights for 5 years? Let that sink in.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Exactly. It will also sere the EU (as a corporate body) right for being a barsteward.

As somebody who works behind a bar, nothing as corrupt and incompetent at keeping track of money as the EU would succeed in such a job...

 

[highspeed990]

Using the EASA as an example - how, precisely, does the UK leaving without a deal hurt the EU more than it hurts the UK?

So you've found one thing out of many that could hurt us, and you're acting like it all depends on it. This is one of many factors, and when all are added up, the EU will be hurt more.

 

[cactustwirly]

So you've found one thing out of many that could hurt us, and you're acting like it all depends on it. This is one of many factors, and when all are added up, the EU will be hurt more.

What are these other factors?