My idea for Southeastern seat reservations from St Pancras.

[ComUtoR]

... and Southeastern staff who are more interested in playing trains than meeting the needs of passengers.

Er.. in what way are Southeastern staff 'playing trains' and which staff are you referring to ?

 

[Antman]

My experience from 2 years commuting from Rye/Ashford International/ Headcorn is that HS1 services have 95%+ of traffic leaving Ashford for London in the peaks maybe around 80% off peak and vice versa. Most of the peak 12 car classic services via Tonbridge leave with 1 or 2 passengers per coach although they will be full and standing by Sevenoaks. If they were fast to Tonbridge they'd be empty passing packed platforms at Headcorn Staplehurst and Paddock Wood. The only people who think this is a good idea post HS1 are rail enthusiasts and Southeastern staff who are more interested in playing trains than meeting the needs of passengers.

But if they were fast services they would have a lot more passengers on leaving Ashford, obviously it won't happen as it would attract passengers off the HS service.

 

[BluePenguin]

Most of the peak 12 car classic services via Tonbridge leave with 1 or 2 passengers per coach although they will be full and standing by Sevenoaks. If they were fast to Tonbridge they'd be empty passing packed platforms at Headcorn Staplehurst and Paddock Wood. The only people who think this is a good idea post HS1 are rail enthusiasts and Southeastern staff who are more interested in playing trains than meeting the needs of passengers.

How can you be so sure? I am certain that if there were services fast to Tonbridge, then there would be many takers over the high speed trains and they would be packed full by Sevenoaks. As for the packed platforms at Pluckly (actually probably not), Headcorn, Staplehurst, Marden and Paddock Wood, they would of course continue to be serviced by their existing services. The south eastern mainline used to have a combination of fast, semi fast and shopping services, with Eurostars somehow squeezed in too. How people think there is no capacity on the line anymore is beyond me.

Currently it doesn't help that most services only start and terminate at Dover Priory rather than Ramsgate, robbing the stations in between with an extra train. For this reason, I agree that Southeastern have other things on their mind rather than meeting the needs of passengers. It is their loss anyway. Who knows, maybe more people would travel if they had better travel options and generate them more revenue?

In the peak there are a number of services to and from Waterloo from Southampton that only stop at the airport and Winchester along the way. There are also a few fast service from Brighton to Victora which only stop at East Croydon and Clapham Junction. But nobody from the intermediate stations complains as they are not at a loss.

There is one train a day to Ramsgate that is fast to Ashford from Tonbridge which has been quite full the times I have been on it. Whether the passengers chose that train for a reason I don't know. The DfT could do a survey to find out what people think, but they can't be interested else they would never have taken the drastic step of getting rid of the other fasts without a proper passenger consultation first.

HS1 is an alternative to, not a replacement for the mainline. I disagree that rail enthusiasts and south eastern staff are the only ones interested as many commuters could benefit. Otherwise all mainline services would have been modified to start from and terminate at Ashford.

 

[Antman]

How can you be so sure? I am certain that if there were services fast to Tonbridge, then there would be many takers over the high speed trains and they would be packed full by Sevenoaks. As for the packed platforms at Pluckly (actually probably not), Headcorn, Staplehurst, Marden and Paddock Wood, they would of course continue to be serviced by their existing services. The south eastern mainline used to have a combination of fast, semi fast and shopping services, with Eurostars somehow squeezed in too. How people think there is no capacity on the line anymore is beyond me.

Currently it doesn't help that most services only start and terminate at Dover Priory rather than Ramsgate, robbing the stations in between with an extra train. For this reason, I agree that Southeastern have other things on their mind rather than meeting the needs of passengers. It is their loss anyway. Who knows, maybe more people would travel if they had better travel options and generate them more revenue?

In the peak there are a number of services to and from Waterloo from Southampton that only stop at the airport and Winchester along the way. There are also a few fast service from Brighton to Victora which only stop at East Croydon and Clapham Junction. But nobody from the intermediate stations complains as they are not at a loss.

There is one train a day to Ramsgate that is fast to Ashford from Tonbridge which has been quite full the times I have been on it. Whether the passengers chose that train for a reason I don't know. The DfT could do a survey to find out what people think, but they can't be interested else they would never have taken the drastic step of getting rid of the other fasts without a proper passenger consultation first.

HS1 is an alternative to, not a replacement for the mainline. I disagree that rail enthusiasts and south eastern staff are the only ones interested as many commuters could benefit. Otherwise all mainline services would have been modified to start from and terminate at Ashford.

Surely Southeastern have a conflict of interests here, speed up services via Tonbridge and less people will use the HS service.

I very much agree with you though that HS1 should be an alternative to and not a replacement of fast services via Tonbridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

The south eastern mainline used to have a combination of fast, semi fast and shopping services, with Eurostars somehow squeezed in too. How people think there is no capacity on the line anymore is beyond me.

Let me help. It is because the line is at capacity at the London end. Which existing services do you propose to remove from Cannon St or Charing Cross in the peak to enable more trains to Ashford and beyond?

 

[paul1609]

Er.. in what way are Southeastern staff 'playing trains' and which staff are you referring to ?

The ones that are suggesting withdrawing stops at Headcorn, Staplehurst and paddock Wood

How can you be so sure? I am certain that if there were services fast to Tonbridge, then there would be many takers over the high speed trains and they would be packed full by Sevenoaks. As for the packed platforms at Pluckly (actually probably not), Headcorn, Staplehurst, Marden and Paddock Wood, they would of course continue to be serviced by their existing services. The south eastern mainline used to have a combination of fast, semi fast and shopping services, with Eurostars somehow squeezed in too. How people think there is no capacity on the line anymore

Currently it doesn't help that most services only start and terminate at Dover Priory rather than Ramsgate, robbing the stations in between with an extra train. For this reason, I agree that Southeastern have other things on their mind rather than meeting the needs of passengers. It is their loss anyway. Who knows, maybe more people would travel if they had better travel options and generate them more revenue?

In the peak there are a number of services to and from Waterloo from Southampton that only stop at the airport and Winchester along the way. There are also a few fast service from Brighton to Victora which only stop at East Croydon and Clapham Junction. But nobody from the intermediate stations complains as they are not at a loss.

There is one train a day to Ramsgate that is fast to Ashford from Tonbridge which has been quite full the times I have been on it. Whether the passengers chose that train for a reason I don't know. The DfT could do a survey to find out what people think, but they can't be interested else they would never have taken the drastic step of getting rid of the other fasts without a proper passenger consultation first.

HS1 is an alternative to, not a replacement for the mainline. I disagree that rail enthusiasts and south eastern staff are the only ones interested as many commuters could benefit. Otherwise all mainline services would have been modified to start from and terminate at Ashford.

As I understand it the proposal has now been dropped in light of opposition from commuters. It wasn't extra fast services it was cutting stops from existing peak services. The one remaining fast service which as I understand it is a stock balancing service that also retains staff knowledge of the through lines runs fast from Tonbridge to Ashford saving around 12 mins. The standard London to Ashford classic time is 1hr20 this would reduce the time to 1 hr 8 mins with no stops between Tonbridge and Ashford. Compare this to a "Ultra fast" (first stop Stratford Int) Peak service to St Pancras in 34 mins and you can see why the classic lines cutting 12 mins wouldn't attract much traffic from HS1. Employment trends were moving Eastwards to Docklands by the time I left my first period of commuting in 1990 a typical journey is now Folkestone to Canary Wharf 1 hr 20 mins via Stratford Int or 2 hours via London Bridge.

 

[louis97]

The one remaining fast service which as I understand it is a stock balancing service that also retains staff knowledge of the through lines runs fast from Tonbridge to Ashford saving around 12 mins.

No need for a train using through lines for staff to retain the route knowledge. You either sign the route from Tonbridge to Ashford or you don't. Through lines and every knowledge aspect required is included in that.