Future of the Argyle Line?

[Bittern]

When the Airdie - Bathgate line is opened, the 334s will be cascaded to there, correct? So will the 334s be North Clyde Exclusive?

And with the 380s coming, I'm presuming that they're going to take over all duties on the Ayrshire and Inverclyde lines.

That leaves the 318s.

So is the Argyle line going to end up completely occupied with 318s?

 

[me123]

The Argyle Line needs 25 3 car trains at current capacity. As there are only 21 trainsets, this would leave Argyle Line short.

I assume that this won't be allowed to happen, and that you will still see a good mixture of 334s and 318s. But it may be weighted slightly more towards the 318s than it was previously. Of course, 318s will be able to operate at the 90mph required for A-B, so they should be able to step in to this role. The 380s will be exclusive to Ayrshire and Inverclyde and GARL.

I don't see why both lines can't be operated by a mixture of 318s and 334s. However, for PR, Argyle services may see more 318s to allow the 334s onto take over the new line. Whatever happens, there'll be a net gain of carriages (by my calculations, more than enough to cover Bathgate) so everywhere should be better off.

Finally; do expect driver training throughout the network. There could well be a few 334s to Ayr yet, and 380s could crop up on the North Clyde and Argyle services. Stranger things will have happened.

 

[Bittern]

Ooo, I wouldn't mind seeing 380s round here!

 

[alex57601]

As far as I'm aware, the plan is that Class 334s will be cascaded off the Ayr and Inverclyde routes and onto the North Clyde to displace the Class 320s and to operate services along the Airdrie-Bathgate route. Class 318s will also supplement the 334s, and I think the plan is to keep 318s on the Argyle Line with 334s supplementing, so basically it looks as though they will be interworking with each other on similar diagrams.

Reason why Class 320s are going to be displaced is down to the new line being 80mph, which the 320s cannot do due to being 75mph units, but the 318s and 334s can due to their 90 and 100mph top speeds respectively.

Only problem is that a 3-car 334 has less seats than a 320 due to the size of the loo's in the PTSO and the 2+2 seating arrangement in the DMSOs, and the fact that 320s do not have loo (again, another reason why they're going to be cascaded)...

318 = 216
320 = 227
334 = 183

The original plan would've meant that the 320s would allow the Class 314s to be withdrawn. However, I have since been told that the 314s will now not be withdrawn and will be around until 2015 - work is being carried out on them to make this possible.

Whether a Class 380 will operate north of the Clyde I do not know. ScotRail's publicity suggests to me they won't, although I have noticed that the ScotRail EMU fleet has a tendency to end up everywhere, so I guess it will be a matter of time.

 

[me123]

Whether a Class 380 will operate north of the Clyde I do not know. ScotRail's publicity suggests to me they won't, although I have noticed that the ScotRail EMU fleet has a tendency to end up everywhere, so I guess it will be a matter of time.

That's theory I was thinking about to be honest. Despite the fact that, for example, 318s should never visit Airdrie on the current diagrams, it happens a lot. On Sundays, just about any train can end up just about anywhere. I suppose that Scotrail want all drivers trained on all trains, which could mean that 380s do indeed see service on the North Clyde from time to time. Definitely not a regular diagram, of course.

 

[Bittern]

I have since been told that the 314s will now not be withdrawn and will be around until 2015 - work is being carried out on them to make this possible.

Wait, WHAT?!

 

[alex57601]

That's theory I was thinking about to be honest. Despite the fact that, for example, 318s should never visit Airdrie on the current diagrams, it happens a lot.

And the 303s ended up visiting Wemyss Bay and Gourock when the more powerful 311s were ordered and built specially for this, and vice versa.

Wait, WHAT?!

You read right. The 314s are not going anywhere. I only found out after seeing this photo, and asking around: http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p57418604.html

If you don't believe me, you may want to get in touch with him personally.

 

[Bittern]

**** YEAH! I love the 314s! Guess this means they'll be re-branded.

 

[gingerheid]

Reason why Class 320s are going to be displaced is down to the new line being 80mph,

Interesing piece of info - I hadn't realised that.

Seems a bit of a shame to go to all that trouble of building a new line then not make it faster than that, expecially at the time when it's easiest to do it, will cost the least, and will cause the least disruption (ie when it's not open as it doesn't exist yet)..

 

[jamesontheroad]

Wait, WHAT?!

Wahey! Gotta love the 314s; I use them on the Cathcart Circle and have no complaints about them. For the relatively isolated short distance routes around the circle and to Newton and Neilston they're fine. They could do with a refurb and maybe passenger operated doors (for all those windswept winter nights when the entire train has to open up to an empty suburban platform) but there's plenty of life in them yet.

Incidentally, how do the aspirations to electrify the remaining DMU operated routes out of GLC affect these stock cascades? Will there be enough stock to operate Whifflet / East Kilbride / Paisley Canal if they were all wired up or would we need another tranche of 380s to be ordered?

 

[alex57601]

Incidentally, how do the aspirations to electrify the remaining DMU operated routes out of GLC affect these stock cascades? Will there be enough stock to operate Whifflet / East Kilbride / Paisley Canal if they were all wired up or would we need another tranche of 380s to be ordered?

I believe there is a plan to do just that, which will tie in with the proposed electrification of the Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk route, and I hear that when these additional routes are electrified there will be another order to operate the new routes, as well as to displace the 156s, 318s and 320s, which will be coming up to life expiry when all this gets done.

All will become more clearer in the next few years.

 

[Bittern]

I really hope the Glas-Edin via Falkirk route doesn't get electrified. One of the things I love most about Queen Street is how the high level is purely DMU operated.

 

[bluenoxid]

**** YEAH! I love the 314s! Guess this means they'll be re-branded.

Class 314/1's WOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH

I think they should grafitti them and call it tartan livery

 

[Bittern]

Hopefully it also means a refurbishment is in order.

 

[alex57601]

I really hope the Glas-Edin via Falkirk route doesn't get electrified. One of the things I love most about Queen Street is how the high level is purely DMU operated.

I am afraid you are going to be disappointed. So enjoy it whole you can.

 

[Bittern]

I'll have to anyway as I'm moving away in a couple of years.

 

[djw1981]

Why move the 314's? Now that the CCTV is being refurbed, can 320 operayte on the Argyle line? If so, let them operate there and the Springburn terminator services, allowing more ARgyle and A-B run as 67car, then cascade the 314 onto the Whifflet / Paisley Canal / Maryhill lines as/when they become electrified.

 

[me123]

67 car trains would be rather impractical for a number of reasons

 

[Bittern]

At least there wouldn't be complaints about lack of seats.

 

[tbtc]

67 car trains would be rather impractical for a number of reasons

It solves the Edinburgh - Glasgow problem - just one massive train between the two, get on at one door, walk to the far end of the train, get out, and you're in the other city!

 

[djw1981]

:$ Yes..........well.............erm...........................

 

[Bittern]

Sooo, looking through this thread I realized there was nothing mentioned about what happens to the 320s after they leave their home turf. Are they going to be retired?

 

[me123]

They were initially going to the Cathcart Circle. However, the 314s seem to be staying on in this role for some time. I'm not sure what 320s will do. They could be strengthening North Clyde Services (the ones that don't go to Edinburgh) and/or strenghtening Cathcart services.

I think there may be a further order of units which will displace the 334s and, maybe, 170s on Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk to coincide with electrification of the above.