Good customer service: Why a staff presence is needed

[Eric]

This morning I was caught up in the disruption between Bradford Interchange and Hebden Bridge.

I witnessed two disabled passengers on the train in wheelchairs struggling to get off the overcrowded train.

The conductor got on the PA system and asked the passengers before he released the doors if they could please leave the train and wait on the platform whilst he could attend to the two disabled passengers in wheelchairs.

Once both wheelchair users were off the train the conductor made sure that they knew about the available transport booked by Northern and waited with them until it was confirmed with whoever he was talking to.

Great customer service and awareness to a potentially dangerous situation from Northern.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yes, great customer service. But it doesn't demonstrate your headline.

Firstly, taking today's conditions (an overcrowded train, and I think I am right to assume a difference in height between train and platform): what this demonstrates is that a railway staff presence was needed. If those staff were on the train, then it doesn't follow that they need to be conductors - just staff available to assist passengers.

And it doesn't follow that the staff needed to be on the train: platform staff could also have assisted passengers from the train and ensured their onward journey: indeed, this would have been a better solution in that the train (overcrowded with other passengers) had to wait until they knew about their onward transport.

But secondly, what if there is a change to the rolling stock? What if (as happens now to some extent on the London Underground, and is coming on Merseyrail) a wheelchair user can roll on and off the train, just as much as an able bodied passenger can step on and off today? In that case, there's no need for staff assistance to get off the train - the loss to the wheelchair using passengers is that they won't be advised about their onward travel. But then, as someone able bodied, I rarely find the railways advising me how my journey should continue, and it's not obvious to me why someone with a disability should get a superior outcome over what will be available to any other passenger.

 

[Eric]

That would be the ideal solution but at platforms like Todmorden and Shipley that is impossible and if no conductor on the train, who is going to phone ahead and tell the station staff if there is any that there is a passenger who needs assistance?

What happens at an unstaffed station? How does the Wheelchair user get off the train in the above situation with no conductor and only the driver?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

What happens at an unstaffed station? How does the Wheelchair user get off the train in the above situation with no conductor and only the driver?

Well, if we're talking the second scenario, a wheelchair user arriving at a platform level with the train will roll straight on / off. Just as a passenger who walks can step on and off.

Or are these stations where there is no level access to platforms (I defer to your local knowledge)? If so, I'd suggest that an on train staff presence (which is where we were before your welcome change to the title from 'Conductor' to 'staff presence') doesn't actually help.

 

[Darandio]

Well, if we're talking the second scenario, a wheelchair user arriving at a platform level with the train will roll straight on / off. Just as a passenger who walks can step on and off.

This wouldn't be the case on something such as a Class 142 with a step, no passenger could just roll on or off.

Although it's fairly irrelevant as the stock is due for replacement and any potential future staffing arrangements would happen after this anyway.

 

[elis]

This wouldn't be the case on something such as a Class 142 with a step, no passenger could just roll on or off.

Although it's fairly irrelevant as the stock is due for replacement and any potential future staffing arrangements would happen after this anyway.

As a wheelchair user who is unable to do wheelies, I would still need assistance to get on and off even with level platform and train. There happens to be a gap that my front castors go down! Some wheelchair users have the strength to do wheelies, ie balance on rear big wheels, but many cannot. There are hundreds of differences between wheelchairs and their users. I suspect onward travel had been arranged as their destination station was not accessible. Many train stations are not step free, or staffed. The train operating company has a duty to get us to an inaccessible station by other means. You can simply catch atrain with little thought, I wish life was so simple, we are expected to know at least 24 hours in advance, and longer to guarenteea reserved wheelchair space. Few trains have more than 2. Lifts are frequently out of order at many so called accessible stations. May be you would like to be treated like a sack of potatoes and taken across a barrow crossing after waiting for numerous trains to go past, missing appointments etc?, may be you would like to be left on eempty trains with part of it on fire? May be you would like to use an onboard loo, not possible on most Northern trains, and will not be for at least another 3 years. May be you would like all my disabilities, legs not working is the least of my problems. We need to have onboard staff other than just a driver., we need to be able to use public transport, crowded trains make getting onboard impossible.

 

[Qwerty133]

This wouldn't be the case on something such as a Class 142 with a step, no passenger could just roll on or off.

Although it's fairly irrelevant as the stock is due for replacement and any potential future staffing arrangements would happen after this anyway.

I think its pretty safe to say that they'll never be a pacer operated DOO service as the modifications would needed are cost prohibitive in a train that is about to be scrapped.

 

[IAN POPE]

Fawkes Cat seems to capture the essence of the DOO argument in his second paragraph. As far as I can understand the argument, RMT is trying to make a safety case for drivers not operating the doors, whereas the TOCs are arguing to have the second person on the train in a more customer facing role. There doesn't seem to be an argument about keeping a second person on trains, just what that person does. I accept there is more of a possibility that in the event of unforeseen staff shortage, the train could then run without the second man, as the driver could then physically operate the doors. If that is an issue it could be made a franchise condition that the "conductor" or whatever label you choose to use has to be on board or the train doesn't run. That will far better address the issues for passengers with reduced mobility which is what this thread seems to be about.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Here we go again, another DOO arguement.

The difference is a second person on the train not being safety critical means the train can still run without that second person even being on board.

Loom what happened to Gat Ex, the Train manager was downgraded. Within 6 months the former train managers no longer existed and Gat Ex trains ran routinely without the number 2.

Having a wheelchair user wheel themselves on and off isnt as simple as it sounds. Platform heights vary and arent necessarily on straight stretches of track. Train heights arent standard either. Plis theres 2500+ of them across the network. Good luck standardising the rail industry in under 30 years. It would take a massive rebuild of the entire network far beyond any financial figure the government would be willing to put in..