St Pancras Ticket Barriers (EMT P1-4)

[David Pemberton]

Hello

Ticket barriers seem to be around 2/3rds completed in the upper concourse for platforms 1-4 for EMT.

Has anyone seen them who can give me a clue as to why they've been placed where they are (i.e. why the location, not why the need for the barriers). It looks like they will take away between 20-30% of the available waiting area in a concourse area that already gets over-crowded with commuters queueing back from the platform gates at rush-hour.

This concourse looks like it could do with some intelligent fine-tuning. There are no high-level signs at the end of the platforms (so since a few weeks after opening there have been some horrid A3 laminated signs cable-tied to the elegant lighting gantries - wrong typeface too).

There are no information displays at the platform ends to confirm the destinations for the trains. So people have to wait by the main departures board unless they want to take an educated guess.

The main departures board is sort of dumped in the middle so no one really knows where to queue from. The regular commuters make an informed guess based on precedent and then form a queue (quietly seeking reassurance from those they've recognised that, "This is the 1815 to Nottingham isn't it?", "Yes, must be, platform 1 has been called and this is the only other HST").

Half the EMT staff will give a straight answer as to where trains will depart, the other half say wait for it to be displayed. And the trains are usually called at around 15 mins prior to departure adding to the problems.

Interpose ticket barriers into this cocktail and I wonder if it will end well. But someone's going to tell me why to the mm the barriers and information boards are just where they are, and reassure me that it's conspiracy not cock-up.

David

 

[Mike395]

I've never really understood why StP doesn't have platform-entrance screens. It just would make sense! Some guide markers as to were to queue wouldnt go amiss either (just two lines painted onto the concource would suffice to map out a 'queue' for each platform) - especially now these barriers are in making it even less obvious where people should queue in busy periods.

 

[EM2]

A lot of it is down to English Heritage. Because the building is Grade 1 listed, every single change has to go through them. Originally, they refused to allow a Departure board at all! So that's why there's just that one and no subsidiary ones
Having said that, it *is* badly placed, and there are rumours it will be moved back behind the barriers.
As for info, the Network Rail staff don't know what train is boarding where, until EMT ask for it to be posted on the Departure board. Some EMT staff wouldn't know either. The dispatchers and supervisors would do though.

 

[jon0844]

The screens downstairs by the circle are silly too - far too long to be easily read.

As they're split by operator, it's even more of a mess without summary screens or anything useful.

In fact, the signs at St Pancras are pretty awful. I'll accept that they have made some new ones since opening, but I do wonder how someone planned them so badly beforehand.

FCC now has signs to say northbound and southbound, but why they can't display the info on each individual display (for north & south) is beyond me. They have the summary screen which must surely confuse tourists and infrequent travellers alike.

Don't even get me started on the zone rubbish!

 

[Bungle]

I can understand the need for ticket gates but to my mind the layout is completely clumsy and the new gates just make it worse. The worst part for me - about St Pancras in general but particularly the EMT platforms - is the lack of seating, which has been made worse since the few seats that did exist were ripped out a few weeks ago.

I personally hate the system at St Pancras where they insist on boarding the train like an aircraft, i.e. a big queue at the boarding gate while tickets are checked. Hopefully the ticket gates will go some way to alleviating this, because more people will be able to pass through at once. Even so, in an airport, you would find a reasonable amount of seating for the passengers while they're waiting, so why do we not have this at St Pancras? There seems to be a lot of wasted space, particularly on the upper level. Or IS there a conspiracy? Maybe they're trying to make you think that if you want to sit down, the only place to do so is in an overpriced bar or restaurant...!

If that's true about English Heritage... well, if they're going to allow a railway station to be run in their building, they should damn well be more willing to accede to reasonable requests! I hardly think a couple of small electronic boards near the platform gates are going to damage the building in any way.

 

[asylumxl]

Question is, what happens for people who buy tickets from Bedford or Luton and then wish to go to say London Bridge. The tickets issued are "London Thameslink". So i assume if you take an EMT to London St Pancras, the barriers are going to eat your ticket, forcing you to use FCC?

Isn't that against your rights of carriage, as it's all available routes?

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure the gates can accept the ticket, and allow it to work the gate downstairs for FCC. In fact, the gates will almost certainly have to accept FCC tickets anyway - for the trains that terminate there during engineering work.

 

[asylumxl]

I'm sure the gates can accept the ticket, and allow it to work the gate downstairs for FCC. In fact, the gates will almost certainly have to accept FCC tickets anyway - for the trains that terminate there during engineering work.

FCC revenue protection refuse to let you through without a huge argument usually.

Really would not Suprise me if EMT joined in and aided FCC in screwing travellers further.

 

[Bungle]

FCC revenue protection refuse to let you through without a huge argument usually.

Interesting... I travel Gatwick Airport - Chesterfield pretty regularly, changing from FCC to EMT at St Pancras, on Advance tickets the vast majority of the time. My ticket never EVER works passing out of the FCC gates to the station concourse, yet I've never had a problem being let through by the FCC attendants on the gate. They take one cursory glance at the ticket and swipe me through without so much as uttering a word.

 

[Edvid]

Question is, what happens for people who buy tickets from Bedford or Luton and then wish to go to say London Bridge. The tickets issued are "London Thameslink". So i assume if you take an EMT to London St Pancras, the barriers are going to eat your ticket, forcing you to use FCC?

Isn't that against your rights of carriage, as it's all available routes?

Have a look at posts #39 and #40 from London Terminals confusion.

 

[EM2]

FCC revenue protection refuse to let you through without a huge argument usually.

Really would not Suprise me if EMT joined in and aided FCC in screwing travellers further.

That is a huge sweeping generalisation and outright libel.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In fact, the signs at St Pancras are pretty awful. I'll accept that they have made some new ones since opening, but I do wonder how someone planned them so badly beforehand.

Really? Thousands of people use the station every day with no problems. My wife (who had never been to St Pancras before) managed to get from the tube to the East Midlands ticket office and then onto the platfrom with no problem.
What do you mean by 'pretty awful' ?

 

[dan_atki]

Don't even get me started on the zone rubbish!

I actually like the zone system on the FCC platforms! Makes sure you're not standing on the wrong part of the platform - useful when you have luggage and can't walk up and down the platform.

If that's true about English Heritage... well, if they're going to allow a railway station to be run in their building, they should damn well be more willing to accede to reasonable requests! I hardly think a couple of small electronic boards near the platform gates are going to damage the building in any way.

Don't get me started on EH after seeing the problems with the redevelopment of King's Cross in a BBC documentary... 'Brackets' indeed :roll: That had to be one of the most difficult-to-watch programmes I have ever seen.

Yes, I appreciate there is heritage, but how many people will notice such brackets in the new King's Cross ticket hall? How many people will notice that the lift struts are supporting a footbridge? As has been said already there has to be some give due to the fact they are working buildings... What damaging effect to a building can four LED boards at the entrance to the platforms cause?

I look forward to seeing the layout now that ticket barriers have gone in. If a significant proportion of the concourse is now on the 'paid' side then I shall have no bones in using the paid side as part of the concourse waiting area whilst a platform is being allocated for my train.

FCC revenue protection refuse to let you through without a huge argument usually.

I've experienced both sides of them. A few times a year I need to travel from Waterloo to St Pancras (and prefer to do so by National Rail via London Bridge). Rather than having the hassle in the ticket office of asking for a Wimbledon* to St Pancras ticket and getting one marked London Terminals, I ask for a Wimbledon to Kentish Town to cover me for the journey.

Upon trying to leave FCC at St Pancras I was told 'Kentish Town is that way, platform B' to which I replied 'I'm breaking my journey here as I'm permitted to do on this Anytime ticket' and was hastily let through. Other people don't glance twice and immediately accept the ticket as valid.

*My reasons for choosing Wimbledon can be seen in http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20388.

 

[Snapper]

Here's the barriers as installed at the moment:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p58423382.html

 

[generalvegitable]

Here's the barriers as installed at the moment:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p58423382.html

that looks like the worlds most secure row of ticket barriers in the world, you can just walk right past them

 

[jon0844]

What do you mean by 'pretty awful' ?

I said they've changed them. They didn't even make it clear how to get to the underground at first. I'm not sure they still make it very clear how to get to Euston or King's Cross on foot either, but think they may have done so too.

 

[David Pemberton]

Here's the barriers as installed at the moment:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p58423382.html

If you go through them to the "paid" side before the platfom is announced you'll find that there are no departure boards or platform end information displays to tell you from which platform your train is departing.

(The picture also rather nicely shows the A3 laminated platform number signs cabled tied to the lighting gantries, not even in the right type-face. They've been there for ages.)

 

[jon0844]

I actually like the zone system on the FCC platforms! Makes sure you're not standing on the wrong part of the platform - useful when you have luggage and can't walk up and down the platform.

The zone system is logical (more so when we have 12-car trains) but confusing because of the design, and having the S stop where it is at the moment (and for some time to come) means no train can really fit within the correct zones!

The problem was that the zones were marked only on the signs on the wall, which made it near impossible to see. I think has changed now, with signs that stick out.

The station has been open some time now, but it still doesn't look totally finished!

 

[EM2]

If you go through them to the "paid" side before the platfom is announced you'll find that there are no departure boards or platform end information displays to tell you from which platform your train is departing.

But why go through if you don't have the information that you need?

 

[dan_atki]

If you go through them to the "paid" side before the platfom is announced you'll find that there are no departure boards or platform end information displays to tell you from which platform your train is departing.

Ah fair enough. I could take a lucky gamble at which Meridian is mine though or be at the front of the rush when it is announced and everyone else comes through!

The problem was that the zones were marked only on the signs on the wall, which made it near impossible to see. I think has changed now, with signs that stick out.

The station has been open some time now, but it still doesn't look totally finished!

Yeah, they stick out of the wall now. I have to agree, to an extent STP is a work in progress - wonder if building work didn't go to plan and they didn't want to delay opening?

But why go through if you don't have the information that you need?

I was referring to a large section of the relatively small concourse being on the paid side of the barriers, and the fact that if there was no room to comfortably wait on the public side then I'd go through and wait on the paid side which would be rather emptier. If, however, it is impossible to get any information that side, then it would be pointless unless you could make an educated guess at which train was yours.

There have been many occasions where the platform has come up just five minutes prior to departure - with a huge rush in such a short amount of time problems are bound to occur.

Mod note: I've had to delete a couple of argumentative posts, and edit comments out of others. No more discussion on the matter please.

Also, we're happy for you to report things, but please don't then post the same thing publicly in an argumentative way - it makes our job harder if we can't get to the thread in time.