Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[hooverboy]

Not many lines need them. Most can take 23m carriages or if not then it's a relatively simple project to lengthen platforms.

the whole lot should be give a thorough dose of salts, rolling stock and track included.they should be also talking to the likes of NR and getting some proper joined up thinking for that line.it does need a few route adjustments mind...and this needs to be planned for due to east-west rail anyway.

rather than keep it as a cottage industry non money spinner there are some quite easy fixes to increase footfall etc.
1) abelio(or other franchisee just adds an extra 6* 2 car dmu to exisiting order book), failing that if lease costs are an issue then 150's are quite acceptable.
2) cut out he spaghetti at bletchley and bedford sidings and have purpose built light maintainance depot on the derelict stewartby brickworks.
3)SPARK IT UP!.....could use soon to be redundant 313's/315's if dmu too expensive.would be necessary for maintainance of 700's etc anyway.
4)double up single track sections(fenny stratford)..and only run a stopper at fenny in peak time weekday,likewise with kempston hardwick
5) new chord to Milton keynes central where bletchley sidings presently are....and a new station (milton keynes stadium).close to mk bowl on the existing freight line
6) don't bother just extending woburn sands platform....new (unmanned)station between woburn sands/bow brickhill with longer platforms .the amazon depot is nearby and quite a big employer.

I think the biggest impact would be seen as a bedford to MK service, becasue both are hubs for faster trains nationally. bletchley is a bit of a pain in the bum if you have to wait 20 or 30 minutes for your next connection.(bedford to mk will cope with saturday night revellers on saturdays and also mk dons football fans+national bowl concerts if stadium station is there..both only 10 minutes walk)

whatever they do, they need all main east west platforms at about 200m(to cope with max 8 car diagrams),off peak bedford-mk would need 3 or 4 car i think but peak hours needs more, 4-6pm the present trains are standing room only during term time

 

[northwichcat]

That is a far to simplistic view. Often there is other infrastructure in the way and it all costs money to move. If it's a signal major reassessments may be required, if its a set of points or lord forbid a level crossing involved a seemingly simple task gets quite involved and therefore expensive.

In the case of Marston Vale it would cause a problem but a line which can't take 2 x 23m is extremely rare. Penistone Line platforms are some of the shortest up here and even they can take 2 x 23m. If it's too problematic to lengthen platforms for 4 x 23m and you only have 23m stock then 3 x 23m stock is always an option!

 

[D365]

Marston Vale is an exception to the rule.

In what way? Civils are expensive. And until EWR gets around to subsuming/electrifying the line there is always going to be a diesel microfleet.

 

[northwichcat]

In what way? Civils are expensive. And until EWR gets around to subsuming/electrifying the line there is always going to be a diesel microfleet.

That was posted in error. I was trying to add in Old Hill Bank's quote when I accidentally clicked the reply button. As I've now added to my post Marston Vale is rare because the platforms can't even take a 2 car 156 or equivalent and neither can they be easily adapted to take one.

If the 150s and 153s get withdrawn and no new 20m DMUs are built and the D-Trains pack in, Marston Vale will need a special solution whether or not it's wired. How many 2 car EMUs running off overheads are there?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

In the case of Marston Vale it would cause a problem but a line which can't take 2 x 23m is extremely rare. Penistone Line platforms are some of the shortest up here and even they can take 2 x 23m. If it's too problematic to lengthen platforms for 4 x 23m and you only have 23m stock then 3 x 23m stock is always an option!

Still to simplistic, the TOC is stuck with diagramming issues to keep the three-car stuff off.

 

[northwichcat]

Still to simplistic, the TOC is stuck with diagramming issues to keep the three-car stuff off.

Keeping formations longer than 3 car off certain branches isn't an issue for TPE.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Keeping formations longer than 3 car off certain branches isn't an issue for TPE.

Lucky TPE, many other operators will find it more of a problem.

 

[class387]

That was posted in error. I was trying to add in Old Hill Bank's quote when I accidentally clicked the reply button. As I've now added to my post Marston Vale is rare because the platforms can't even take a 2 car 156 or equivalent and neither can they be easily adapted to take one.

If the 150s and 153s get withdrawn and no new 20m DMUs are built and the D-Trains pack in, Marston Vale will need a special solution whether or not it's wired. How many 2 car EMUs running off overheads are there?

If that happens, I fear that the 'special solution' may be an RRB.

I hope the 230s will be fine.

 

[northwichcat]

If that happens, I fear that the 'special solution' may be an RRB.

I hope the 230s will be fine.

However well they do, the 230s won't last forever.

 

[D365]

However well they do, the 230s won't last forever.

That's when EWR is supposed to come in.

And won't I be glad when it does.

 

[hooverboy]

That's when EWR is supposed to come in.

And won't I be glad when it does.

this bit of track should be extremely easy to sort out properly,it's just the lawyers and civil servants making it more complicated/expensive than it needs to be.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

However well they do, the 230s won't last forever.

Just stick diesel engines (or perhaps by the time they're needed, compact nuclear fusion reactors) under a couple of S-stock driving cars!

 

[Bletchleyite]

AIUI a level crossing and signal position *is* involved at at least one station and is the reason why SDO can't be used.

This is one key reason why these units are near enough uniquely suited to the Marston Vale. Other reasons are the ability to do maintenance at a lesser facility, and the fact that most trains are very quiet but some are very busy, and the original D-stock layout will work well for this.

It wouldn't surprise me were they the only 3 sold, though.

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps corespondents ought to check out this months edition of Todays Railways.............

 

[DarloRich]

The biggest problem LM have and WMT will have is getting DMUs between Tyseley and Bletchley along with the associated traction and route knowledge required. To have three 2-car units that can be maintained locally has to be a bonus.

They managed to ship a 153 down from Brum yesterday evening at very short notice as the 150 went u/s with wheel flats. Just keep Vale drivers up to date on the 153 as a back up

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Perhaps corespondents ought to check out this months edition of Todays Railways.............

Does it correspond to this:- http://www.stourbridgelineusergroup.info/News - New Franchise - Abellio Presentation.pdf

 

[Chris125]

Perhaps corespondents ought to check out this months edition of Todays Railways.............

Could you give us a hint?

 

[pdq]

Page 7: "December 2018 - 230/2 introduced Bedford-Bletchley 3x2car. Subject to successful completion of new train procurement and deals with ROSCOs on existing fleet"

 

[bspahh]

On slide 10 of http://www.stourbridgelineusergroup.info/News - New Franchise - Abellio Presentation.pdf there are some images of a Digital Customer Information Screen.

One says "Major Delays. Unfortunately we are experiencing long delays. Due to an incident in the Ely area, services are currently suspended between Huddersfield and Leeds." with the destination station as London Liverpool St., which is pretty good going for West Midlands trains!

 

[DarloRich]

Does it correspond to this:- http://www.stourbridgelineusergroup.info/News - New Franchise - Abellio Presentation.pdf

pretty much

( I had seen a similar presentation but it was marked non public)

 

[doa46231]

"Facilitating a Bedford/Milton Keynes direct connection would require the acquisition of 3rd party land and the construction of a significant amount of new infrastructure to allow the installation of a new east chord immediately north of the existing marshalling yard. Both of these would be costly and are not supported by the remit or business case from the Department for Transport."

This is a reply I received from the EWR alliance, when I raised the same point during the East-West rail consultation.
I still believe this is a major flaw in the whole scheme.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A through service could still be provided with a reversal. Indeed, that was said to be what MKC slow line bay was built for.

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members that this thread is entitled "Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail" and ask that we attempt to stay on topic - particularly where there are ample alternative threads on the relevant topics.

Thanks

 

[D365]

Can I remind members that this thread is entitled "Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail" and ask that we attempt to stay on topic - particularly where there are ample alternative threads on the relevant topics.

Is this regarding discussions pertaining to EWR, or the possibility of extending the Bletchley terminators to MKC?

 

[gazthomas]

Is this regarding discussions pertaining to EWR, or the possibility of extending the Bletchley terminators to MKC?

I would save both - this topic is about Class 230 ex D-stock trains being produced by Vivarail

 

[coppercapped]

But then those are brand new and complicated trains (and bought through a vastly complicated procedure too)

The purchase 'procedure' was finished when the contracts were agreed with Agility Trains West in July 2012.

The trains themselves are essentially lengthened versions of the Class 395s - so a known quantity. The floor in all but the end carriages is a bit higher to allow the diesel power packs to be installed underneath. Diesel power packs are also a known quantity and it should have been possible to design and prove power changeover switches in the length of time between the retreat from Dunkirk and the invasion of Normandy.

These trains have taken an inordinate length of time to get into daily operation.

The D-Trains are meant to be a cheap and timely solution to a short term lack of DMUs, rebuilding existing stock. That they are now talking about battery technology suggests project drift, as the target market is slowly drifting away...

If, that little word 'if', there had not been design flaws in the diesel power modules then the Class 230 would already have been in service. As to the investigation of battery technology I would say that this is an example of the manufacturer listening to the market. A train can be waiting at a terminus with the diesel switched off - so no local emissions - and add the diesel's output when needed. With present concerns about particulate poisoning this has to be a marketing plus.

 

[northwichcat]

If, that little word 'if', there had not been design flaws in the diesel power modules then the Class 230 would already have been in service.

A lot of manufacturers encounter problems in producing the first unit of a new class. You could argue Vivarail were over ambitious in their timescales and did not factor in enough time to overcome the problems which arose.

 

[IanXC]

I would save both - this topic is about Class 230 ex D-stock trains being produced by Vivarail

Precisely. East West Rail and ideas for changes to Marston Vale services are off topic.

 

[HLE]

A lot of manufacturers encounter problems in producing the first unit of a new class. You could argue Vivarail were over ambitious in their timescales and did not factor in enough time to overcome the problems which arose.

I’d argue the supplier that supplied the power packs should have check the fuel hoses were tight enough - in my opinion, it’s more down to quality control not being good enough and also a wee bit of haste to get the unit ready.

 

[D365]

Precisely. East West Rail and ideas for changes to Marston Vale services are off topic.

Fair enough - the Class 230s will hopefully prove a suitable solution in the interim.