Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[Gathursty]

I was on the first Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby shuttle as far as Rainford and back. Loadings were about 20 going to Liverpool and the return was about 7 in the carriage I got on. I am ashamed to admit that I was unaware Wigan Wallgate P3 has platforms on both sides like Ulverston!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd expect the Ormskirk to Preston route to play a greater role during future blockades, once it goes hourly and has a 7-day service.

It has done before, I've known them run Sunday services on the line in the 1990s when Liverpool to Preston via Wigan was disrupted in some way, and also during strikes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on the first Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby shuttle as far as Rainford and back. Loadings were about 20 going to Liverpool and the return was about 7 in the carriage I got on. I am ashamed to admit that I was unaware Wigan Wallgate P3 has platforms on both sides like Ulverston!

More because it's a single bay (also P2 at Carlisle, and the Sheffield Hope Valley bay, and indeed Euston P17 are like that).

What is rather rarer is the Hausbahnsteig/Nebenbahnsteig arrangement (i.e. both on the same side) on through platforms which is very common in Germanic countries but in the UK I've only seen at Ulverston and Sellafield.

 

[fowler9]

Just a minor point, there are no "coal" trains, just "Biomass". They should revert back to the L&M line this week.

Apologies, I didn't realise it was only Biomass now though Liverpool.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apologies, I didn't realise it was only Biomass now though Liverpool.

Ironically, I read somewhere that Fiddlers Ferry was having coal deliveries again, but transported from another port (Tyne?) rather than Liverpool.
They have a short-term reserve contract, nothing like the large coal burn they had.

 

[185143]

As regards future closures of Lime Street, I'm sure I read somewhere that further work will be done over Christmas 2017, Easter 2018, and another blockade at some point next summer (June/July)?

8 weeks next summer according to a TPE RPI I was talking to at South Parkway the other day

 

[8A Rail]

Ironically, I read somewhere that Fiddlers Ferry was having coal deliveries again, but transported from another port (Tyne?) rather than Liverpool.
They have a short-term reserve contract, nothing like the large coal burn they had.

Yes coal for Fiddlers Ferry is coming from both Port of Tyne and also Portbury too but currently it varies week to week. Previously to that, had received coal from Ferrybridge PS. For added information Liverpool Bulk Terminal is now mothballed. The Biomass is coming from Liverpool Biomass Terminal - a different facility.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

An uncertain start today for the limited service (4tph) from Lime St via Huyton.
Several cancellations, late running and turning short.
Seems to be improving though.

 

[M60lad]

Seems to have got worse with the following being reported on National Rails Site:


A signalling problem near Edge Hill is causing disruption to Northern services to and from Liverpool Lime Street. Services to and from this station may be cancelled, delayed by up to 40 minutes or revised

This is expected to continue until the end of the day.

Customer Advice:
Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western are currently reduced and although some trains will call at all stations, journey times may be extended.

The following changes will apply:

• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Preston will continue to run
• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria, departing on the hour (XX:00), are CANCELLED
• Services between Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western departing at 45 minutes past the hour (XX:45) are CANCELLED
• Services between Wigan North Western and Liverpool Lime Street departing at 22 minutes past the hour (XX:22) are CANCELLED
• Services between Manchester Victoria and Liverpool Lime Street departing at 59 minutes past the hour (XX:59) are CANCELLED.

 

[Loop & Link]

Issue with the SLW/bi-directional working. Signal reversions occurring.

Also issues with drivers not being briefed over the new layout at Huyton and Roby.

 

[adam9413]

Trains now starting to run as planned.

 

[snowball]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...ool-lime-street-as-station-upgrade-continues/

Passengers travelling between Liverpool and Preston, Blackpool, Wigan, St Helens and Manchester Victoria can begin to use Lime Street from today (9 October) after two platforms reopened.


Network Rail has successfully completed the first nine days of work on the station’s major upgrade, part of a £340m investment into the railway in the Liverpool City Region by 2019, as part of the Great North Rail Project.

Work to upgrade platforms 1 and 2, combined with signalling work and connecting a fourth track between Huyton and Roby, means that trains will run in and out of Lime Street between 6am and 8pm. Replacement buses will continue to be in use outside of these times.

Vital upgrades to the Liverpool City Region’s main station kicked off on Saturday 30 September, as part of a 23 day transformation. Work completed so far includes upgraded track on platforms 1, 2 and 9 and the modernisation of the station’s signalling system.

When completed in 2018, the upgrade will enable an extra three services per hour in and out of Lime Street station, including new direct services to Scotland. Longer, better managed platforms will allow bigger trains, with more room for passengers into the station. There will also be a re-modelled concourse.

Main line services between Liverpool and Birmingham, London, Leeds, Manchester and Crewe have successfully been diverted to Liverpool South Parkway over the last nine days, and will continue until work completes on 22 October.

Between Saturday 30 September and Thursday 5 October, more than 155,000 passenger journeys have started and ended at Liverpool South Parkway– more than three times the number of passenger journeys in a typical week.

Rob Grey, project manager at Network Rail, said: “This work forms part of a massive £340m investment in the Liverpool City Region which is vital to increase capacity and provide passengers with a better railway.

“This much needed investment will boost the city’s economy and enable more reliable, more frequent journeys. Completing the fourth track between Huyton and Roby is a major milestone and we are making great progress at Lime Street, a third of the way through the first phase of its major upgrade.”

Sharon Keith, regional director at Northern, said: “It’s great to see such early progress in the transformation of Liverpool Lime Street and the modernisation of the Liverpool City Region infrastructure.

“We are delighted to once again be able to offer rail services to our customers on the Huyton and Roby line and are excited about the long term benefits the line upgrades will bring in tandem with our own modernisation programme.”

Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde, Merseyrail’s managing director, said: ‘Over the next couple of weeks, Merseyrail will continue to play a supporting role within this project, transporting people between Liverpool South Parkway and the city centre. To date, this has been working well, but we cannot stress enough how important it is that customers plan their journeys and allow more time for travel.’

Frank Rogers, chief executive of Merseytravel, said: “The months of planning ahead of this work appears to be paying off, with the alternative travel arrangements generally working well, best illustrated by Liverpool South Parkway accommodating more than three times the number of passenger journeys than usual.

“Where there have been teething issues we’ve been looking to address them quickly and will continue to monitor the situation to ensure we can keep the Liverpool City Region moving. We thank people for their patience while we look to build a better railway.”

Chris Nutton, major projects director for TransPennine Express, said: “Our joint plan is working well and as an industry, we’ve operated 1,620 trains over the past nine days.

“I want to thank customers for their continued patience. This essential work will allow operators to run longer trains with more seats and introduce more services such as our new link from Liverpool to Glasgow in 2018”

Work between Huyton and Roby has been completed in two key stages, the first of which was in 2014. The overall improvements include new track between Huyton and Roby, a new platform at both Huyton and Roby, signalling upgrades and overhead line equipment installed, and new facilities at the stations including better customer information systems, new lifts and easier access via subways.

The additional fourth track between Huyton and Roby will allow faster services to overtake local stopping services, enabling quicker journeys and more capacity on the route in and out of Liverpool.

For travel information visit www.networkrail.co.uk/lcr or for more information on the £340m investment in the Liverpool City Region’s rail network by the end of 2019 visit www.keepliverpoolmoving.com.

 

[fowler9]

Seemed to be running relatively smoothly early this evening. Still rail replacement buses for me to West Allerton for the coming weeks alas. Its worth it and I'm not complaining though. The buses are pretty reliable to be fair, many thanks to Arriva and their staff.

 

[185143]

I used a rail rep to Hunts Cross on Sunday night-had about 15 on, but the bus was nearly full when it arrived (ex Liverpool).

I had a non stop 508 Central-Parkway on Sunday night too which had about 6 people in mine and the next carriage, remained onboard back to Central with the front unit entirely to myself.

The next Central-Parkway was a connection onto a pendo, and I was standing. There seemed to be a similar amount of people waiting to board too.

 

[Holly]

Halton’s iconic new Mersey Gateway Bridge will open to traffic just after midnight on the morning of Saturday 14th October 2017.
http://www.merseygateway.co.uk/2017...just-after-midnight-on-saturday-14th-october/
The 1961 bridge will close for about a year within minutes of the new bridge's opening.

It will be interesting to see how much this reduces usage of Runcorn station.
And how much earlier the car park at Liverpool South Parkway fills up.

 

[fowler9]

It will be interesting to see how much this reduces usage of Runcorn station.
And how much earlier the car park at Liverpool South Parkway fills up.

It will indeed, you may actually see more people using Runcorn station as well. It is a bit of a perfect storm situation at the moment combined with Arriva and Stagecoach having strikes in Liverpool over the coming weeks. The car park at South Parkway fills up that early at the moment that I would suggest people try and find an alternative way of making their journey if at all possible.

 

[northwichcat]

Report on BBC North West tonight just now about peak time Warrington-Manchester services getting 2 carriages instead of 4 and many people unable to board. Northern blaming the revised diagrams due to the Lime Street closure and trains being away for refurbishment.

 

[ivanhoe]

Halton’s iconic new Mersey Gateway Bridge will open to traffic just after midnight on the morning of Saturday 14th October 2017.
http://www.merseygateway.co.uk/2017...just-after-midnight-on-saturday-14th-october/
The 1961 bridge will close for about a year within minutes of the new bridge's opening.

It will be interesting to see how much this reduces usage of Runcorn station.
And how much earlier the car park at Liverpool South Parkway fills up.

I suspect little difference. Business customers will claim the toll back and other customers will cough up because the alternative will be getting a bus which is just as expensive or take a risk trying to park at LSP. Let’s face it, it’s been a pain driving to Runcorn for the past two years. Theoretically, it should be easier ,albeit more expensive now.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Report on BBC North West tonight just now about peak time Warrington-Manchester services getting 2 carriages instead of 4 and many people unable to board. Northern blaming the revised diagrams due to the Lime Street closure and trains being away for refurbishment.

Because the Lime Street closure, planned 18 months ago and agreed with them 12 months ago, was a complete surprise to Northern and its refurbishment programme

 

[Bovverboy]

jcollins said: ↑
Report on BBC North West tonight just now about peak time Warrington-Manchester services getting 2 carriages instead of 4 and many people unable to board. Northern blaming the revised diagrams due to the Lime Street closure and trains being away for refurbishment.

Because the Lime Street closure, planned 18 months ago and agreed with them 12 months ago, was a complete surprise to Northern and its refurbishment programme

Quite. In the latest issue of 'Connexions Express' (a Northern house magazine) it is said that

We’ve also doubled the number of refurbished trains carrying customers on our network with 30 now in traffic across both our diesel and electric fleets.

No mention of short-forming trains left, right, and centre. Indeed, the implication is that refurbishing them is something Northern should get a pat on the back for.

There isn't exactly a shortage of available rolling stock. I'm sure there's plenty of LHCS available, and, as I understand it, most of the Class 67 locos are currently in store. It's simply a question of who's going to pay.

One thing which has surprised me this week has been the appearance of 2-car DMUs on some Lime Street to Victoria stoppers.

 

[Loop & Link]

Always planned, 1 DMU diagram out because it starts it’s day at Wigan having stabled overnight.

 

[Bovverboy]

Always planned, 1 DMU diagram out because it starts it’s day at Wigan having stabled overnight.

Forgive my ignorance, but whose post is the above a response to?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Forgive my ignorance, but whose post is the above a response to?

Presumably in response to the last line of your #320.
Still doesn't explain why Northern still turn out short DMUs under the wires when most of their 319 fleet is idle at Allerton.

 

[Loop & Link]

Reason for DMU is it comes from Wigan at 05:22 - (05:22 Wigan-Lime Street).

In connection with the Lime Street works there are booked engineering possessions which means it’s not possible to get a 319
to run ECS to Wigan for the service in time.

Also, the units can’t be swapped over at Lime Street because of the limited platform availability.

This is why there’s a DMU out from start of day.

 

[childwallblues]

Reason for DMU is it comes from Wigan at 05:22 - (05:22 Wigan-Lime Street).

In connection with the Lime Street works there are booked engineering possessions which means it’s not possible to get a 319
to run ECS to Wigan for the service in time.

Also, the units can’t be swapped over at Lime Street because of the limited platform availability.

This is why there’s a DMU out from start of day.

This service runs via Newton-Le-Willows and is normally a 319.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Bovverboy
One thing which has surprised me this week has been the appearance of 2-car DMUs on some Lime Street to Victoria stoppers.

Always planned, 1 DMU diagram out because it starts it’s day at Wigan having stabled overnight.

When the Liverpool to Manchester Victoria stopping service is operating normally, no journeys on Mondays to Fridays are scheduled to be operated by diesels, and, when the normal timetable has been in operation, it's quite a long time since I've seen one so operated, simply because there are sufficient 319s available to operate the full service.

On Sundays three journeys on the stopping service (operating to/from Manchester Airport on that day, of course) are scheduled for diesels, 0844 Manchester Airport to Lime Street, 2215 Lime Street to Manchester Airport, and 2315 Lime Street to Manchester Airport. The first of those uses a unit supplied from Longsight - it's scheduled to run direct between there and Slade Lane Junction, a manoeuvre I doubt would be permitted most of the week. The last two couple together at the Airport and run to Newton Heath.
On Sundays there is a journey imbalance (i.e. there is one more journey scheduled towards the Airport than to Lime Street) and it is probably easier to cover the 'odd' journey with a diesel. In respect of the other two journeys it is presumably considered easier to use diesel than bring into play the 319 stabled at Stockport or either of the two stabled at Manchester Victoria, any of which could be used if required.

On Saturdays six journeys are diesel-operated, these being the journeys which are additional to the basic hourly service. Of those, the 0742 Lime Street to Victoria journey is worked by the unit off the 0644 Wigan North Western to Lime Street (via Newton-le-Willows), in turn worked by a 156 (I think) which has spent the night in platform 3 at North Western. Note that the fact that a duty starts at Wigan North Western doesn't in itself dictate that it has to be a diesel, since North Western is fully wired! Whether a 319 would fit into the usual stabling platforms (2/3) is another matter (I don't know whether one would or not, it would be a close run thing), but there's room for two to stable in platform 6, so electrics could start/finish at Wigan if necessary.

 

[Bovverboy]

Presumably in response to the last line of your #320.
Still doesn't explain why Northern still turn out short DMUs under the wires when most of their 319 fleet is idle at Allerton.

I'm not sure that I'd say that 'most' of Allerton's 319s have been idle just lately - there's been a saving of one unit on Manchesters, two on Warringtons (which haven't been running at all) and, probably, 2/3 on Wigan/Preston. That's still meant a requirement for, probably, eleven units per day (Mon-Sat) - but easily covered by the allocation, of course.

 

[Bovverboy]

Reason for DMU is it comes from Wigan at 05:22 - (05:22 Wigan-Lime Street).

The 0522 is an STP, it's only running NSSu 9-20 October. Why there suddenly needs to be an 0522 train, when the first is usually 0603, I've no idea.
9-13 Oct it was indeed a diesel, I don't know what it did afterwards, since it doesn't appear possible to track trains into and out of Lime Street at the moment - they're shown indiscriminately as arriving/departing platform 1 or 2.
16-20 Oct it is covered by an ECS from Allerton, so the implication is that it's going to be a 319.

In connection with the Lime Street works there are booked engineering possessions which means it’s not possible to get a 319 to run ECS to Wigan for the service in time.

When services were terminating at St Helens Junction/St Helens Central 319s were still sent ECS from Allerton to Wigan/Manchester Victoria, via Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly. At the moment 319s are coming to/going from Allerton pretty much as normal, except that those not actually picking up service at Lime Street are reversing at Edge Hill.

Also, the units can’t be swapped over at Lime Street because of the limited platform availability.

Swapping units doesn't take up any more platforms than not doing. All you need is two platform alterations, and a swap of the crew. In any case there doesn't actually need to be any swapping at Lime Street, since there's more than enough opportunity to do it at Wigan NW/Manchester Victoria.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Loop & Link
Reason for DMU is it comes from Wigan at 05:22 - (05:22 Wigan-Lime Street).

This service runs via Newton-Le-Willows and is normally a 319.

Childwallblues, I think you're getting confused there with the 0644 journey. The latter does run via Newton-le-Willows, and is covered by a 319 on Mondays to Fridays - the unit to work it comes ECS from Allerton, and this journey also operates via Newton-le-Willows. On Saturdays the 0644 is a DMU, using a unit stabled at Wigan.

 

[Bovverboy]

jcollins said: ↑
Report on BBC North West tonight just now about peak time Warrington-Manchester services getting 2 carriages instead of 4 and many people unable to board. Northern blaming the revised diagrams due to the Lime Street closure and trains being away for refurbishment.

I calculate that Northern requires one fewer DMU set during the Lime Street rebuilding than it would do normally.

When it comes to short-forming trains, I think in recent times Northern has been easily surpassed by EMT. When a Northern train is painfully overcrowded, or so full that not everyone can board, there are usually alternatives. But if a service is only hourly, being unable to board is a disaster.

On Saturday (14/10) the 1803 Liverpool South Parkway to Norwich was formed of a single 158 - I can't remember whether that is normal, or not, on a Saturday, I do know that it's scheduled for a double Monday to Friday. Anyway it's the last train of the day for beyond Nottingham, and on Saturday Sheffield Wednesday were playing away at Bolton. Needless to say, not every intending passenger at Piccadilly managed to board, and, of those who did, many would have been standing to at least Sheffield, I imagine.