Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[northwichcat]

Vivarail's seat design for their latest mockup is unusual: http://vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Design-Configuration-03.jpg

 

[gazthomas]

Vivarail's seat design for their latest mockup is unusual: http://vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Design-Configuration-03.jpg

I like. Not to dissimilar a layout to the 345's and Met S stock, and the seat fabric is pretty cool.

 

[tsr]

Actually reminds me of the 376s, in a weird sort of way. (And those aren't bad units - save for some glaring omissions in the spec sheet, such as air con!)

 

[route:oxford]

Really like the USB sockets.

Good obvious location that doesn't need scrabbling at foot level and are in sight as you get up to leave the train.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having been in hospital recovering from an emergency laparotomy operation early in September, I am now gradually bringing myself up to date with railway news.

I hear that Innovate UK made a grant available to Vivarail and ask what was the size of the grant made.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can't answer your question but hope you are OK Paul?

 

[InTheEastMids]

I hear that Innovate UK made a grant available to Vivarail and ask what was the size of the grant made.

I expect this is your answer, page 15 has a grant to Vivarail:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ion_in_Rail_Round_4_-_Competition_Results.pdf

 

[D365]

Is this to do with their prototype battery unit?

 

[simple simon]

I thought that the D stock (and for that matter, the C stock) were both built cabling suitable for use on lines with voltages of at least 1000v.

This was because they operated on British Rail lines which were electrified at 750v dc and standard higher / lower fluctuations meant that they would sometimes see 900v - or even more.

The more voltage upgrades on the Subsurface lines had to wait for the A stock to go and are not being applied to routes shared with Piccadilly Line 1973 tube stock.

Simon (replying to some messages dated 17th September)

 

[northwichcat]

Today's Railways UK are reporting D-Trains will enter passenger service on the Bedford to Bletchley route at the December 2018 timetable change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I look forward to it. Will Chugs 1 and 2 last that long? ;D

 

[gazthomas]

Posted on Vivarail's website on Tuesday 11 October 2017:

"New trains, new technology and new jobs

Earlier this year we announced that the first two D-Trains would be ready for service in 2018. To make this happen:

• we scaled up our production process and built a new strip-out facility
• we employed new people: creating jobs and investing in training to create a highly skilled workforce
• we built relationships with key suppliers – industry-leading experts in their own right

And we became excited about battery technology!"

http://vivarail.co.uk/new-trains-new-technology-new-jobs/

 

[absolutelymilk]

Posted on Vivarail's website on Tuesday 11 October 2017:

Pretty sure today (the 11th) is a Wednesday!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Posted on Vivarail's website on Tuesday 11 October 2017:

"New trains, new technology and new jobs

Earlier this year we announced that the first two D-Trains would be ready for service in 2018. To make this happen:

• we scaled up our production process and built a new strip-out facility
• we employed new people: creating jobs and investing in training to create a highly skilled workforce
• we built relationships with key suppliers – industry-leading experts in their own right

And we became excited about battery technology!"

http://vivarail.co.uk/new-trains-new-technology-new-jobs/

Well we have been told that Marston Vale is planned to go 230 operation next December (2018) but they are still unable to confirm a single order, don't you just love the rail industry.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well we have been told that Marston Vale is planned to go 230 operation next December (2018) but they are still unable to confirm a single order, don't you just love the rail industry.

What about those orders Viverail claimed they had many months ago, but would not confirm what they were.

 

[northwichcat]

What about those orders Viverail claimed they had many months ago, but would not confirm what they were.

I imagine one 'order' was the current LM franchise agreeing to a trial, only for the trial to fall through after the prototype caught fire and they couldn't fix it in time.

 

[edwin_m]

Speculating, the other order may have been for trains to take construction workers to the Moorside nuclear power station, which now won't be built for some time (if ever).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also possible that Abellio approached them ages ago re the Marston Vale but the order was subject to the franchise win. This could explain the secrecy.

 

[keith1879]

Also possible that Abellio approached them ages ago re the Marston Vale but the order was subject to the franchise win. This could explain the secrecy.

Seems a highly likely explanation to me. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just wait and see what happens now that there seems to be a real prospect of them actually being used.

 

[Mikey C]

This whole programme does seem really slow, 3 years down the line to get 2 units in service

 

[coppercapped]

This whole programme does seem really slow, 3 years down the line to get 2 units in service

Hmm! It's a question of proportion!

The decision to order Hitachi's Class 80X trains for the IEP was made by the DfT in March 2011 and the contract was placed in July 2012.

It's now 12 October 2017 and none of them have yet entered service - that 6 1/2 years since the original decision and 5 1/4 years since the contract was signed. Two World Wars were each fought in less time.

If Vivarail gets its trains out next year then it will be a hare among the tortoises...

 

[northwichcat]

Hmm! It's a question of proportion!

The decision to order Hitachi's Class 80X trains for the IEP was made by the DfT in March 2011 and the contract was placed in July 2012.

It's now 12 October 2017 and none of them have yet entered service - that 6 1/2 years since the original decision and 5 1/4 years since the contract was signed. Two World Wars were each fought in less time.

If Vivarail gets its trains out next year then it will be a hare among the tortoises...

D-Trains were seen as an alternative to brand new DMUs.

Vivarail started working on the prototype unit in early 2015, having agreed to purchase the D-Trains in late 2014.

CAF signed the Civity agreement with Arriva in early 2016.

Yet both are set to enter passenger service in 2018, with Vivarail having missed a deadline to get the D-Trains introduced this year.

 

[mushroomchow]

The Marston Vale does seem like a good candidate. Fairly detached from the wider network, 60mph limit, quite a few stops giving the acceleration capabilities a good test.

And of course, if things go belly-up, it won't be too much hassle for WMR to draft in a DMU to fill the gap.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The Marston Vale does seem like a good candidate. Fairly detached from the wider network, 60mph limit, quite a few stops giving the acceleration capabilities a good test.

And of course, if things go belly-up, it won't be too much hassle for WMR to draft in a DMU to fill the gap.

The biggest problem LM have and WMT will have is getting DMUs between Tyseley and Bletchley along with the associated traction and route knowledge required. To have three 2-car units that can be maintained locally has to be a bonus.

 

[Mikey C]

Hmm! It's a question of proportion!

The decision to order Hitachi's Class 80X trains for the IEP was made by the DfT in March 2011 and the contract was placed in July 2012.

It's now 12 October 2017 and none of them have yet entered service - that 6 1/2 years since the original decision and 5 1/4 years since the contract was signed. Two World Wars were each fought in less time.

If Vivarail gets its trains out next year then it will be a hare among the tortoises...

But then those are brand new and complicated trains (and bought through a vastly complicated procedure too)

The D-Trains are meant to be a cheap and timely solution to a short term lack of DMUs, rebuilding existing stock. That they are now talking about battery technology suggests project drift, as the target market is slowly drifting away...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The biggest problem LM have and WMT will have is getting DMUs between Tyseley and Bletchley along with the associated traction and route knowledge required. To have three 2-car units that can be maintained locally has to be a bonus.

And the 40m platforms. Nobody does a 2x20m DMU any more.

 

[D365]

That they are now talking about battery technology suggests project drift, as the target market is slowly drifting away...

Can't say I agree on this, battery train technology is definitely something that is looking at a big push in development for the future.

 

[northwichcat]

And the 40m platforms. Nobody does a 2x20m DMU any more.

Not many lines need them. Most can take 23m carriages or if not then it's a relatively simple project to lengthen platforms.

 

[D365]

Not many lines need them. Most can take 23m carriages or if not then it's a relatively simple project to lengthen platforms.

However there's not much point doing the lengthenings once and then again, if the stations are going to be ripped out in ~10 years anyway for EWR.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Not many lines need them. Most can take 23m carriages or if not then it's a relatively simple project to lengthen platforms.

That is a far to simplistic view. Often there is other infrastructure in the way and it all costs money to move. If it's a signal major reassessments may be required, if its a set of points or lord forbid a level crossing involved a seemingly simple task gets quite involved and therefore expensive.