Would Coventry to Wolverhampton be considered too short a journey for first class?

[snuk]

Hi all,

I'd really like to take a trip on a Virgin Pendolino for at least an hour and I'd also love to travel first class as I've never done so before - there is also the fact that standard class always seems busy on the Pendolinos.

I live near Nuneaton and originally, I was thinking about Nuneaton to Euston on one of the earlies but then I'd have to get back.

I was thinking about buying a West Mids Day Ranger like I normally do - then joining one of the Route A London to Wolverhampton Pendolinos at Rugby but I've read that they don't stop every often at Rugby is that right? So I thought about joining at Coventry instead and taking the trip - 47 mins I think - to Wolverhampton in first class - obviosuly buying a First Anytime Single at Coventry.

My main question is - would Virgin be okay with this? - especially as it is such at short journey - and would I be able to use the first class facilities - like the on-train extras and 1st class lounge at Coventry - is there one at Wolverhampton?

Last thing I want to do is annoy anyone.

Many thanks,

Steve.

 

[Geezertronic]

The WMDR's are not valid on Virgin Trains services, check the WMDR info in the link below:

http://www.railrovers.org.uk/midlands.html

Buying the separate ticket would be ok though...

 

[snuk]

Many thanks for the reply.

Would I be able to access the first class lounge at Coventry or Wolverhampton because VT don't mention Anytime tickets on their website -

"To get in, just show your valid Virgin Business, First Open or Advance First ticket"

Could it just be that the details haven't been updated since Anytime tickets were introduced?

Steve.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Apologies - I found this document

http://downloads.virgintrains.co.uk/docs/FirstClass-entry.pdf

Which says

First Open Single/Return (renamed Anytime from May 2008)


Steve.

 

[Geezertronic]

I've done something similar before but between Birmingham International and Wolverhampton because my young lads wanted a Pendolino ride and Std class was too busy so I bought 1st Class tickets.

I still can't believe how far the WMDR ticket reaches? I am sure it was only Cov to Wolves when I was a kid. Might have to do that with the boys soon

 

[tony_mac]

Sounds like a good idea to me - does anyone know the best time of day to get fed? You might as well get as much as you can for your £7.50!

 

[snuk]

Yeah, the WMDR covers quite a big area - looking at the map now - the extremities are: (apologies if you already know).

Crewe, Gobowen, Nuneaton, Hereford, Worcester, Redditch, Rugeley, Stratford-upon-Avon Leamington Spa and Northampton.

I've only travelled on a WMDR once in recent years that was about 6 weeks ago - the previous times would have been about 15 to 20 years ago when I was a lad. I loved it then and still love it now.

Any thoughts I where I should go? This time, I was planning on leaving Nuneaton around 9am when the ticket becomes valid and then going to Coventry or Rugby and picking up a Pendolino to Wolverhampton. I figured by which time it would be between 11 and 12. Looking for ideas for after then.

Cheers,

Steve.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thats what I was thinking, Tony_mac.

I was wondering if I'd be likely to receive anything complimentary in the 50 or so minutes between Cov and Wolves.

I've read that there are free drinks - I'd be grateful for that to be honest but any food would be a bonus.

 

[clagmonster]

I still can't believe how far the WMDR ticket reaches? I am sure it was only Cov to Wolves when I was a kid. Might have to do that with the boys soon

Are you sure you are not thinking of the Centro day tripper, maybe under different name?

 

[Geezertronic]

Are you sure you are not thinking of the Centro day tripper, maybe under different name?

I probably am, I'm going back 20 years or so when you used to have to scratch off the date to validate the ticket :roll:

 

[glynn80]

Apologies - I found this document

http://downloads.virgintrains.co.uk/docs/FirstClass-entry.pdf

Which says

First Open Single/Return (renamed Anytime from May 2008)


Steve.

But your missing a crucial detail in the equation.

The First Class ticket between Coventry and Wolverhampton is a "First Anytime DAY Single. The previous First Open tickets after simplification became the First Anytime Single.

First Anytime Day Singles and Returns are not valid for access into the Virgin Trains First Class Lounges.

 

[snuk]

But your missing a crucial detail in the equation.

The First Class ticket between Coventry and Wolverhampton is a "First Anytime DAY Single. The previous First Open tickets after simplification became the First Anytime Single.

First Anytime Day Singles and Returns are not valid for access into the Virgin Trains First Class Lounges.

That's a shame - but I can appreciate why they might have this restriction.

 

[tony_mac]

The First Class ticket between Coventry and Wolverhampton is a "First Anytime DAY Single.

The NXEC site calls it a 'First Class Anytime Single', while the Virgin site says '
FIRST ANYTIME DAY SINGLE'.
If you buy from NXEC will you still get a day single?

 

[glynn80]

The NXEC site calls it a 'First Class Anytime Single', while the Virgin site says '
FIRST ANYTIME DAY SINGLE'.
If you buy from NXEC will you still get a day single?

If on the NXEC site, you click on the ticket as if you were going to purchase it and move onto the Order Summary, once there click on Terms & Conditions underneath the journey summary and it will lead you this page (https://tickets.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/nxec/en/tickettandc/F/FDS.aspx), which are the conditions for the First Anytime Day Single.

So, yes in answer to your question, when this ticket is posted or collected it will state in the ticket type 1st Anytime Day Single.

 

[Pumbaa]

Sounds like a good idea to me - does anyone know the best time of day to get fed? You might as well get as much as you can for your £7.50!

You only get fed south of Coventry on the EBW runs. You'll get a cup of tea/coffee after each Coventry and New Street however.

 

[yorkie]

It looks like they may not accept Anytime Day, but in my mind if you say "First Anytime" are valid, and combine that with the ATOC promotional literature which boasts about "simplification", Anytime fares are considered "one type".

I'm not sure it is acceptable in the Trade Descriptions Act to say "First Anytime are accepted" and then refuse to accept it because it's suffixed with "Day". Unless the restriction code says "Not valid in lounges" and unless the lounges explicitly state that "Day" tickets are not valid, then I don't see how they can refuse them.

 

[glynn80]

It looks like they may not accept Anytime Day, but in my mind if you say "First Anytime" are valid, and combine that with the ATOC promotional literature which boasts about "simplification", Anytime fares are considered "one type".

I'm not sure it is acceptable in the Trade Descriptions Act to say "First Anytime are accepted" and then refuse to accept it because it's suffixed with "Day". Unless the restriction code says "Not valid in lounges" and unless the lounges explicitly state that "Day" tickets are not valid, then I don't see how they can refuse them.

But they do not state "First Anytime's" are valid.

Their literature/website still refers to the old First Open's (pre simplification).

I am not sure where you would stand legality wise, on saying that the only tickets that are valid for entry into your lounge are ones which do not exist anymore; but they certainly could not be prosecuted under the Trade Desprictions Act for confusing the term "First Anytime" as they never mention the term, in that form.

 

[tony_mac]

If on the NXEC site, you click on the ticket as if you were going to purchase it and move onto the Order Summary, once there click on Terms & Conditions underneath the journey summary and it will lead you this page (https://tickets.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/nxec/en/tickettandc/F/FDS.aspx), which are the conditions for the First Anytime Day Single.

So, yes in answer to your question, when this ticket is posted or collected it will state in the ticket type 1st Anytime Day Single.

Even the title of that page calls it a 'First Class Anytime Single' - and under the conditions it says 'First Class Anytime tickets provide access to First Class Lounges at stations' - to say that is misleading is an understatement!

I don't see how anyone can be supposed to know that the ticket will come with the word 'day' added to it, and hence isn't valid for entry into lounges. (and that restriction is confusing enough by itself!)

I'm almost tempted to buy one now, just for the sake of it - maybe I can travel down with a 'Route Birmingham' ticket on WSMR!

 

[glynn80]

Even the title of that page calls it a 'First Class Anytime Single' - and under the conditions it says 'First Class Anytime tickets provide access to First Class Lounges at stations' - to say that is misleading is an understatement!

I don't see how anyone can be supposed to know that the ticket will come with the word 'day' added to it, and hence isn't valid for entry into lounges. (and that restriction is confusing enough by itself!)

I'm almost tempted to buy one now, just for the sake of it - maybe I can travel down with a 'Route Birmingham' ticket on WSMR!

It is the title of the actual webpage (at the top of the window), that I was referring to- FDS, which stands for First Anytime Day Single.

I agree the National Express East Coast site is misleading and as you say, it does state on that page I linked to, that it is valid in FC lounges. But certainly the Virgin rules do not allow that and I'm not sure it is NXEC's place to be forcing other TOCs to accept tickets where they are not valid.

 

[Polarbear]

I've purchased a 1st class day return between Wolverhampton & Coventry in the not too distant past & used the lounges at both ends with no trouble at all.

However, I would add that the last time I did this was prior to fares simpification, so Virgin may well have changed their terms & conditions since then with regard to day returns.

If these tickets are restricted, it seems a bit daft as most of the time, the lounges are fairly quiet. I can understand Virgin protecting the benefits of the lounges for their "Anytime" customers but it seems petty to debar tickets including a "day" suffix to say the least.

 

[bengolding]

But your missing a crucial detail in the equation.

The First Class ticket between Coventry and Wolverhampton is a "First Anytime DAY Single. The previous First Open tickets after simplification became the First Anytime Single.

First Anytime Day Singles and Returns are not valid for access into the Virgin Trains First Class Lounges.

You obviously haven't used a Virgin First Class Lounge then. I used the Virgin lounge at New St yesterday with a First Day single ticket to Rugby getting the xx50 with no problems. You can use any Virgin First Class Lounge with any First Class ticket so long as you intend to travel on a Virgin train or have arrived on one. If your First Class ticket is for a CrossCountry journey then you'll be refused entry.

 

[glynn80]

You obviously haven't used a Virgin First Class Lounge then. I used the Virgin lounge at New St yesterday with a First Day single ticket to Rugby getting the xx50 with no problems. You can use any Virgin First Class Lounge with any First Class ticket so long as you intend to travel on a Virgin train or have arrived on one. If your First Class ticket is for a CrossCountry journey then you'll be refused entry.

Have you read none of this topic, or bothered to read any of the links that accompany the posts.

Virgin Train's policy is clearly stated on their website (http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/travelling_with_us/at_the_station/first_class_lounges/default.aspx) just above the telephone numbers of the various different lounges.

It states:

To get in, just show your valid Virgin Business, First Open or Advance First ticket. You can only enter the lounge on the travel date shown on your ticket.

This policy is designed, so that passengers purchasing First Class tickets for very short journeys, really only to take advantage of the lounge, do not abuse the system.

Now, you may of had an experience, whereby the member of Virgin staff checking your ticket, was not very thorough and decided to let you in, but I have certainly seen people refused access because of their ticket type at the Euston FC lounge. Giving the impression that this occurs at every First Class lounge up and down the Virgin Network, all the time, is not the case.

Please in future read the whole topic, before posting absolute rubbish.

 

[tony_mac]

Virgin Train's policy is clearly stated on their website (http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/travelling_with_us/at_the_station/first_class_lounges/default.aspx)

It says that the list of valid tickets 'include' First Anytime Single tickets. It doesn't say that other First class tickets are not valid, and makes no mention at all of First Anytime Day Single tickets. Any reasonable person would assume that a First Anytime Day Single is a type of First Anytime Single ticket - they are even sold under that name.

If they mean to say that First Anytime Day Single tickets are not valid for entry then they should say so explicitly on their entry policy.

 

[glynn80]

It says that the list of valid tickets 'include' First Anytime Single tickets. It doesn't say that other First class tickets are not valid, and makes no mention at all of First Anytime Day Single tickets. Any reasonable person would assume that a First Anytime Day Single is a type of First Anytime Single ticket - they are even sold under that name.

If they mean to say that First Anytime Day Single tickets are not valid for entry then they should say so explicitly on their entry policy.

The First Anytime Day Single is not a type of First Anytime Single, they are two separate products.

If they were to be seen as the same product there would be no need for the "First Anytime Day Single", that fare would have been abolished and all Anytime first class singles would have been called "First Anytime Singles". But because many TOCs still wanted to keep the distinction between short distance First Class singles and longer distance fares, the First Anytime Day Single was kept.

The only website that is selling them as the same product is the WebTIS that NXEC, Southern & London Midland use. All theTrainline operated sites (including Virgin's) and the National Rail website, clearly state the product is called the First Anytime Day Single. This I believe to be an error on the part of the WebTIS operator, it is probably not a big issue considering the products are pretty similar, but it does create confusion over slight issues like this.

Twice, I have personally been in Virgin FC lounge's and have seen people with First class tickets refused entry (one was a FDR the other was an FSR), because the tickets those customers held, were deemed to be not of sufficient level to gain access.

 

[tony_mac]

The First Anytime Day Single is not a type of First Anytime Single, they are two separate products.

Yes, you know that, but how is the public supposed to know? It is an entirely reasonable interpretation of the wording.

To say 'We accept first class tickets, including First Anytime tickets' and secretly mean, without stating it, 'but not First Anytime Day tickets, because we consider them to be a seperate product' is just not reasonable.

 

[glynn80]

Yes, you know that, but how is the public supposed to know? It is an entirely reasonable interpretation of the wording.

To say 'We accept first class tickets, including First Anytime tickets' and secretly mean, without stating it, 'but not First Anytime Day tickets, because we consider them to be a seperate product' is just not reasonable.

Ah I see what your getting at, obviously this is one of the negative after-effects of simplification.

I suppose the only way to really clear the situation up would be to also list those ticket types they don't accept but the most likely situation is that it will be left how it is currently and the regular travelling public are turned away from FC lounges when they arrive.

 

[snuk]

After a couple of e-mails to VT this morning I was advised to call them.

Just spoke to a lady at VT Customer Relations who seemed sure that First Anytime Day Single or Return would be accepted for access to the lounges - I even explained that there is a different ticket with a similar name called First Anytime (i.e. without the "day) and double-checked and she checked with someone else and she said that First Anytime Day tickets would be acceptable.

She also offered me a First Anytime Return from COV to WVH for £12 which sounds reasonable - not sure if this is a standard or "day" ticket, though.

I must admit, rightly or wrongly, I've been put off a little bit now. All I want is at least an hour, first class on a Pendolino with a not-too-expensive ticket - ideally with the option to relax in the lounges at either end between connections.

I did think about running down to Euston on an early but I've never been to London before and I'd prefer to stick with what I know - at least by going to COV or WVH I know how to get home.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[clagmonster]

The Coventry-Wolverhampton £12.30 fare is a first anytime day return.

 

[bengolding]

Have you read none of this topic, or bothered to read any of the links that accompany the posts.

Virgin Train's policy is clearly stated on their website (http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/travelling_with_us/at_the_station/first_class_lounges/default.aspx) just above the telephone numbers of the various different lounges.

It states:


This policy is designed, so that passengers purchasing First Class tickets for very short journeys, really only to take advantage of the lounge, do not abuse the system.

Now, you may of had an experience, whereby the member of Virgin staff checking your ticket, was not very thorough and decided to let you in, but I have certainly seen people refused access because of their ticket type at the Euston FC lounge. Giving the impression that this occurs at every First Class lounge up and down the Virgin Network, all the time, is not the case.

Please in future read the whole topic, before posting absolute rubbish.

Your impression that this occurs at every Virgin FC lounge is misleading.

Although I normally use the Virgin FC lounges with full fare First Anytime tickets at £100+ from the West Midlands to Euston, I do also use them occasionally with First Day single tickets for travel with Virgin. On several recent occasions when I've used the Lounges at Coventry, Birmingham International (both video entry) and New St (visual inspection), I've never had any problem. Indeed, their First Advance fares from the Midlands are ludicrously cheap compared with the short distance First Day single fares. It's not a case of abusing the system as you state. The chap at New St recognises me and said that the company policy is to accept any First Class ticket which involves travel on their services. As you say, their website does need to be updated to reflect the new ticket names.

 

[glynn80]

Your impression that this occurs at every Virgin FC lounge is misleading.

Although I normally use the Virgin FC lounges with full fare First Anytime tickets at £100+ from the West Midlands to Euston, I do also use them occasionally with First Day single tickets for travel with Virgin. On several recent occasions when I've used the Lounges at Coventry, Birmingham International (both video entry) and New St (visual inspection), I've never had any problem. Indeed, their First Advance fares from the Midlands are ludicrously cheap compared with the short distance First Day single fares. It's not a case of abusing the system as you state. The chap at New St recognises me and said that the company policy is to accept any First Class ticket which involves travel on their services. As you say, their website does need to be updated to reflect the new ticket names.

Admittedly I have only seen this occur at one FC lounge but that does not detract from the fact this has happened twice in my view and the two sets of tickets were inspected by four different people (the Euston FC lounge often had two persons on the desk).

I don't think I was misleading anyone, I stated I have seen Virgin refuse in practice, at Euston FC lounge and from their policy it does not list First Anytime Day. The logical conclusion to me is that Virgin have instructed FC lounges to refuse these tickets and have advertised (although not very clearly) on their website to reflect this.

I can however definitely believe that the video entry points at Coventry and International accepted a First Anytime Day, as when I have always shown a ticket to the camera, the only detail the person inspected has asked to see, is the top right hand corner where the word 1st is written.

 

[Geezertronic]

I did think about running down to Euston on an early but I've never been to London before and I'd prefer to stick with what I know - at least by going to COV or WVH I know how to get home.

You should try it Steve, you'll regret it if you don't ... the only thing with Euston is that you have to either listen for the platform announcement or wait by the big screen for the platform announcement as they are not usually advertised up front. Last time I used the Euston Virgin First Class lounge they didn't have announcements in there so the lady kindly listened on my behalf (that was 2 weeks ago on a weekday).

 

[snuk]

Many thanks for the replies.

Just wanted to say no problems using the 1st Class Lounges at Wolverhampton and New Street with a 1ST ANYTIME DAY 1S single ticket.

Very impressed - love the lounge at Wolverhampton with the glass frontage - had the place to myself for about 45 minutes whilst I was waiting for a VT service back to New Street - would have been less but I missed one whilst enjoying my complimentary coffee. Very concious after making use of the lounge that I caught a VT service - there were several others I could have joined including AXC, ATW, and LM's.

Steve.