Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Bungle965]

700 failure earlier causing problems today. I'm on a Sutton that's going fast from Blackfriars, driver is making plenty of announcements to this effect but apparently has been unable to change the PIS to match. Surely this can be overridden somehow?

They probably still have not been issued with a manual on the PIS!
Sam

 

[Sprinter153]

Apparently they are to receive training for 700s but we'll see...

OBS training?
What, you mean more than 'this is a PA handset, and this is the book of inane scripts we want you to use'?

 

[tsr]

I think the Littlehampton stoppers have been in the timetable for many years, although I couldn't swear that the station calls North of Horsham haven't changed.

Perhaps it has been converted with more stops north of Horsham in recent years - maybe that's what I'm thinking of. I believe there was a major change involving it at some point. It may even be in the endless archive of news articles on Southern's website, somewhere!

The 06.33 from Horsham has always seemed a pretty useless service. From Littlehampton there's a faster train to London Bridge via Hove leaving 5 minutes before it and from Horsham and the Arun Valley the 06.50 ex-Horsham is faster and overtakes the 06.33 before East Croydon. I assume that it is largely aimed at commuters from the local stations via Redhill.

You are correct on all points, I think. I use the stopping service in question on the odd occasion (very rarely though). These are my observations too!

It appears that the balancing evening down working no longer runs via Horsham (I've used that a few times in the past and it was very lightly loaded South of Gatwick).

I certainly can't think of any comparable one-off southbound service having existed in the last couple of years.

It starts from platform 1 by stock that appears by magic, as a manager said the other day "the timetable is still being tweaked".

Hmmm. I'm guessing ECS from the Littlehampton area or from the sidings at Horsham, then. But who knows...

OBS training?
What, you mean more than 'this is a PA handset, and this is the book of inane scripts we want you to use'?

Not quite. They know that bit.

There are different procedures for various things on 700s - locking out the train (it's very different...), how to use the ramps, dealing with the toilets, the limited numbers of Guard (ha) Operating Panels, etc. etc. Plus documentation to be revised on stuff like SDO / accommodation in platforms.

How much this will all be used by OBSs is a different matter!

 

[Bald Rick]

700 failure earlier causing problems today. I'm on a Sutton that's going fast from Blackfriars, driver is making plenty of announcements to this effect but apparently has been unable to change the PIS to match. Surely this can be overridden somehow?

Not a failure as such. Metallic balloon got caught in pantograph of a service at Mill Hill, which caused pantograph damage. Train stranded for an hour or so while it was all sorted, blocking the up slow. All south bounds via fast lines for a while, causing some congestion.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Not a failure as such. Metallic balloon got caught in pantograph of a service at Mill Hill, which caused pantograph damage. Train stranded for an hour or so while it was all sorted, blocking the up slow. All south bounds via fast lines for a while, causing some congestion.

Did the damage prevent the pan from lowering? iirc it's possible for a 700 to self rescue with just the traction package of 1 half of a unit

 

[MCR247]

That could've caused the damaged panto to damage the wires surely? And does redundancy in traction packages help in the case of panto damage?

 

[Bald Rick]

Chipped carbons, so had to wait for an inspection before it could move. When I saw it only the front pan was up, and I gather that's how it eventually moved off under its own power.

Traction packages is a bit of a misnomer. The 700s are in traction power terms two seperate units. If one pan is down, that half of the unit is dead for traction, but the other half can easily do the work of both. A half power 700/0 has almost as much grunt as an 8 car 319.

 

[tsr]

Apparently the balloon eventually floated off, following which the train could have proceeded with only one pantograph in use, but both were dropped (somehow...) and it took some time to work out how to proceed.

 

[Minstral25]

Perhaps it has been converted with more stops north of Horsham in recent years - maybe that's what I'm thinking of. I believe there was a major change involving it at some point. It may even be in the endless archive of news articles on Southern's website, somewhere!

Hmmm. I'm guessing ECS from the Littlehampton area or from the sidings at Horsham, then. But who knows...

I used it frequently in 2007-13 from Redhill and my memory suggests it started to come from Littlehampton from around 2012 - although it always seemed an odd connection of services put together as no-one would use a virtually all stations stopping trains from Littlehampton to London. Presumably done because the stock needed a berth in Littlehampton. pretty sure it has always been 12 coaches.

Although the Redhill route was probably the main aim of the service it used to regularly (about once every 2-3 weeks) skip stop from Gatwick to East Croydon. Forcing the large London Bridge contingent onto 7:23 Victoria - which as it is single run of stock from Brighton to Victoria and back was regularly cancelled as well. Occasionally they would both disappear causing massive capacity issues.

I suspect going forward they now have more sidings at Horsham or Three Bridges and they can slide a 700 out from one of them easily. Feel sorry for the one or two local users who found this train useful between Littlehampton and Horsham to get to work but the London commuters will be fine of course

 

[ComUtoR]

Apparently the balloon eventually floated off, following which the train could have proceeded with only one pantograph in use, but both were dropped (somehow...) and it took some time to work out how to proceed.

The Pant changes over itself when in auto mode. So far I have never needed to use the manual procedure but I've been relatively lucky with them so far. I have no clue how to pan up a single pantograph. Any faults I pick up the phone and call fleet control and they walk you through it. Even fleet control are still working things out :/

 

[Bald Rick]

Apparently the balloon eventually floated off, following which the train could have proceeded with only one pantograph in use, but both were dropped (somehow...) and it took some time to work out how to proceed.

MOM cut off the balloon.

 

[westcoaster]

The Pant changes over itself when in auto mode. So far I have never needed to use the manual procedure but I've been relatively lucky with them so far. I have no clue how to pan up a single pantograph. Any faults I pick up the phone and call fleet control and they walk you through it. Even fleet control are still working things out :/

Lock the other one out via the HMI power tab.

 

[Hophead]

I used it frequently in 2007-13 from Redhill and my memory suggests it started to come from Littlehampton from around 2012 - although it always seemed an odd connection of services put together as no-one would use a virtually all stations stopping trains from Littlehampton to London. Presumably done because the stock needed a berth in Littlehampton. pretty sure it has always been 12 coaches.

Although the Redhill route was probably the main aim of the service it used to regularly (about once every 2-3 weeks) skip stop from Gatwick to East Croydon. Forcing the large London Bridge contingent onto 7:23 Victoria - which as it is single run of stock from Brighton to Victoria and back was regularly cancelled as well. Occasionally they would both disappear causing massive capacity issues.

I suspect going forward they now have more sidings at Horsham or Three Bridges and they can slide a 700 out from one of them easily. Feel sorry for the one or two local users who found this train useful between Littlehampton and Horsham to get to work but the London commuters will be fine of course

That's jogged my memory - you are correct. Horsham sidings were full, so the train was stabled overnight in Littlehampton. Horsham Field sidings are obviously now complete (hence the recent storage of 2 rakes of 377/5 there). It's been mentioned that the 06:33 will start from platform 1 at Horsham which does suggest an arrival from the new sidings (off the Dorking line).

There are some commuters who use this train to connect into a Gatwick Express for Victoria. Those travelling from south of Horsham will probably find themselves on the 06:05 ex Bognor come December.

 

[ComUtoR]

Lock the other one out via the HMI power tab.

Cheers. Fault finding/resolution tips are always welcome.

 

[Sunset route]

That's jogged my memory - you are correct. Horsham sidings were full, so the train was stabled overnight in Littlehampton. Horsham Field sidings are obviously now complete (hence the recent storage of 2 rakes of 377/5 there). It's been mentioned that the 06:33 will start from platform 1 at Horsham which does suggest an arrival from the new sidings (off the Dorking line).

There are some commuters who use this train to connect into a Gatwick Express for Victoria. Those travelling from south of Horsham will probably find themselves on the 06:05 ex Bognor come December.

I'm pretty sure that this service came about by extending the Billingshurst to London Bridge back to Littlehampton. The stock used to run ECS from Horsham Carriage Sidings. As for class 700s they have done quite a few overnight train platform interface test runs over night on the Arun Valley, so they should know by now how and where they neeed to stop for correct signal sighting. If all the class 700s berth overnight in Horsham field sidings then it's going to leave Horsham Down main north, Carriage sidings Down main south and up main south looking pretty empty.

 

[tsr]

700104 is presently sat at Burgess Hill on the Up Main Reversible with its fire alarms and hot axle box detectors going off. To be sent ECS to depot when it can be moved.

3 trains stranded outside platforms, 1 waiting at Preston Park, and so on.

 

[spark001uk]

700104 is presently sat at Burgess Hill on the Up Main Reversible with its fire alarms and hot axle box detectors going off. To be sent ECS to depot when it can be moved.

3 trains stranded outside platforms, 1 waiting at Preston Park, and so on.

Was that off 1W94? If so it's on the move now, 5W94.

 

[RUFJAN15]

That's jogged my memory - you are correct. Horsham sidings were full, so the train was stabled overnight in Littlehampton. Horsham Field sidings are obviously now complete (hence the recent storage of 2 rakes of 377/5 there). It's been mentioned that the 06:33 will start from platform 1 at Horsham which does suggest an arrival from the new sidings (off the Dorking line).

There are some commuters who use this train to connect into a Gatwick Express for Victoria. Those travelling from south of Horsham will probably find themselves on the 06:05 ex Bognor come December.

This discussion has prompted me to dust off my old paper timetables!

I have the last(?) printed version of the GBTT - Dec 2005 to June 2006. Table 188 (BML + Branches) lists the following services:

06.02 LIT - LBG (d HRH 06.34)
18.34 LBG - LIT (d HRH 19.45)

These services called at all shacks via Redhill in both directions.

I have always assumed that these were the last vestiges of the old VIC - LIT stoppers via HRH which are still listed in my 1985 timetable. I believe these disappeared when the Arun Valley fast trains were diverted from the Dorking route to run via Gatwick (1987?).

To get back to the 700's, my money is on the ECS for the 06.33 coming from Three Bridges depot initially. The empty stock moves are in RTT for the LIT starters/terminators and it appears that one will stable at LIT and the other returns to Three Bridges. There would not appear to be a spare unit at LIT to send up to HRH in the morning. Stabling at HRH is a possibility, however there are no TL services finishing there (as far as I can see).

 

[tsr]

Was that off 1W94? If so it's on the move now, 5W94.

Indeed!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Could someone advise when 700001 entered service please?

 

[Dan08]

There is a Siemens depot open day at Three Bridges, Crawley between 10:00-17:00 on the 14th of October. There will be a load of 700's there.

 

[JonathanH]

Could someone advise when 700001 entered service please?

30 August

 

[Islineclear3_1]

30 August

Thanks

 

[EMD]

There is a Siemens depot open day at Three Bridges, Crawley between 10:00-17:00 on the 14th of October. There will be a load of 700's there.

Great opportunity to get up close and personal with one (or many) of those plastic soap boxes in case you didn't dislike them bad enough already. Will they be under AC power so that guests could feast their ears on the continuous high pitched noise the panto units make unless the doors are open?

 

[Kite159]

I noticed this evening that the services carrying First Class are being announced on platforms as "First Class at the front". Did some genuine FC passengers moan about overcrowding in the rear section?

 

[jon0844]

I noticed this evening that the services carrying First Class are being announced on platforms as "First Class at the front". Did some genuine FC passengers moan about overcrowding in the rear section? [emoji38]

Probably just a feature now they're all 700 operated.

 

[TRAX]

Surely the Desiro City units have set new records in terms of new train unreliability ? Again, I’m not surprised coming from Siemens but still, that’s harsh.

 

[387star]

Will those Littlehampton services be it or will more be added

 

[AM9]

Surely the Desiro City units have set new records in terms of new train unreliability ? Again, I’m not surprised coming from Siemens but still, that’s harsh.

I doubt it. What are comparing them with?
Unreliability of a train type in service is defined as miles per confirmed fault across the whole fleet. So compare that with the equivalent figures for other classes in their first 18 months of service. I wouldn't expect the class 700s to be the worst, either in pre or post privatisation days.
As an aside, the class 345s seem to be having a few issues (which may not be confirmed faults) and they are only running a couple of diagrams over a simple end to end local service.

 

[87015]

What's with all the screens saying train not in service internally on many units at the moment? Can't be that's it isn't being set up as the announcements work for stopping pattern ok?