Football ambassadors on trains

[woody505]

Stewards employed by football clubs to travel with supporters to keep the peace.

Not arguing with it as football fans annoy people, but do they have any powers apart from asking nicely "can you keep the noise down and stop swearing"?

 

[BestWestern]

Sounds like police on the cheap to me. I'd rather have BTP.

 

[woody505]

They asked for transport police support with an hours notice to meet them at one of the top 5 stations outside London.

No sign of them; are they stretched that thin?

 

[Gemz91]

Assuming they'd have similar powers to that of security guards TOCs employ on certain lines.

 

[woody505]

Asked them there not allowed to remove. Can ask people not to swear and sing and if it continues have to ask for support from btp but they did help ppl with bags into another carriage

 

[johnnychips]

Asked them there not allowed to remove. Can ask people not to swear and sing and if it continues have to ask for support from btp but they did help ppl with bags into another carriage

Which game was it?

 

[Hadders]

I assume this happened earlier today, if so the BTP are probably engaged in dealing with slightly more important issues than stewarding football supporters given the UK Threat Level is at Critical...

 

[itsjustmyjob]

Stewards employed by football clubs to travel with supporters to keep the peace.

Not arguing with it as football fans annoy people, but do they have any powers apart from asking nicely "can you keep the noise down and stop swearing"?

Thanks for that sweeping generalisation.
Football fans ARE people, last time I checked.

Not every football fan annoys people.
Just like not every train fan annoys people.

But some do. Of both types.

 

[roversfan2001]

Not arguing with it as football fans annoy people

I think the most annoyance I caused to the staff on my train to the game today was having the cheek to buy a ticket, earning the guard commission (if that is in his contract).

How dare I. :roll:

 

[tsr]

I assume this happened earlier today, if so the BTP are probably engaged in dealing with slightly more important issues than stewarding football supporters given the UK Threat Level is at Critical...

Could well have been earlier today (well, yesterday - just!), from what I've read.

BTP had a huge amount to do with shepherding football supporters and monitoring travel, but it was very much based on risk, numbers travelling and any historical issues. Club stewards / ambassadors were drafted in under the same arrangements as providing BTP - it was just a case of using a different asset where appropriate.

As for using BTP resources at such events, don't forget that a number of recent terrorist attacks have unfortunately targeted higher profile leisure activities, and it is regrettably entirely possible that a football match could be the next idea for somebody with a "bag for death" packed full of explosives. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but maintaining a visible police and security presence is vital to make people feel comfortable and reduce risk as far as practically possible (note: "practically"!). This could well involve BTP being on hand for larger groups of supporters, with fully briefed crowd controllers monitoring the rest, and being able to report anything suspicious as appropriate.

 

[Ianigsy]

Presumably part of the point is that if they're provided by the travelling supporters' own club, they're in a position to collect details if trouble does happen, which could lead to troublemakers losing away travel privileges or having their season ticket cancelled.

 

[Antman]

I assume this happened earlier today, if so the BTP are probably engaged in dealing with slightly more important issues than stewarding football supporters given the UK Threat Level is at Critical...

Police don't simply abandon other duties because of the increased threat level.

 

[Antman]

Thanks for that sweeping generalisation.
Football fans ARE people, last time I checked.

Not every football fan annoys people.
Just like not every train fan annoys people.

But some do. Of both types.

Indeed, the vast majority of football fans are fine, it's the small minority that aren't that tend to get noticed.

 

[BestWestern]

Police don't simply abandon other duties because of the increased threat level.

Not abandon, but prioritise. Those additional officers patrolling have to come from somewhere.

 

[MCSHF007]

... it's the small minority that aren't that tend to get noticed.

Indeed, the pea brains that find it acceptable to "sing" in the presence of, and to the annoyance, of other passengers need to grow up.

The other Saturday a group of tanked-up Stoke fans travelling to Bolton delayed a Blackpool bound train in excess of 30 minutes at Oxford Road by smoking on the platforms and generally being ar*eholes.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is worth mentioning that quite often having members of staff associated with the club (either police officers acting as liaison officers, or club employed stewards) can help stop some potential situations turning nasty. Certainly I have noticed an increase in many clubs taking their own stewards to work at away games for this particular reason.

 

[roversfan2001]

It is worth mentioning that quite often having members of staff associated with the club (either police officers acting as liaison officers, or club employed stewards) can help stop some potential situations turning nasty. Certainly I have noticed an increase in many clubs taking their own stewards to work at away games for this particular reason.

IME that's because the stewards are unnecessarily heavy-handed. It's amazing what a hi-viz can do to someone's ego sometimes.

 

[Antman]

IME that's because the stewards are unnecessarily heavy-handed. It's amazing what a hi-viz can do to someone's ego sometimes.

Some are like that, most do a good job.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I get fed up with the inverted racism shown to British football fans. Thousands of German supporters can cause traffic chaos, throw bottles, set off flares in public places and it is the 'host' club's fault, the authorities fault - anyone else's fault apart from the offending German fans. There was a sickly apologetic stance in the Standard about how it is part of German football fan culture to march through opponents cities setting off flares etc and it wasn't really their fault that they travelled in vast numbers without tickets, created chaos, stormed gates etc.
When it's a few rowdy English football fans everyone wants the 'annoyance' dealt with, book thrown at them. Some football fans can be a nuisance but then so can many other passengers - you deal with people who are a nuisance who or whatever they may be.

 

[CC 72100]

I get fed up with the inverted racism shown to British football fans. Thousands of German supporters can cause traffic chaos, throw bottles, set off flares in public places and it is the 'host' club's fault, the authorities fault - anyone else's fault apart from the offending German fans. There was a sickly apologetic stance in the Standard about how it is part of German football fan culture to march through opponents cities setting off flares etc and it wasn't really their fault that they travelled in vast numbers without tickets, created chaos, stormed gates etc.
When it's a few rowdy English football fans everyone wants the 'annoyance' dealt with, book thrown at them. Some football fans can be a nuisance but then so can many other passengers - you deal with people who are a nuisance who or whatever they may be.

Superb post... but of course, it's only ever the English fans abroad isn't it? :roll::roll:

 

[WelshBluebird]

Indeed, the pea brains that find it acceptable to "sing" in the presence of, and to the annoyance, of other passengers need to grow up.

In that case can we please expand that to Rugby fans who do the same, or Darts fans, or those who have just come out of a gig? (all groups of people who I have seen sing loudly and drunkenly on trains).

IME that's because the stewards are unnecessarily heavy-handed. It's amazing what a hi-viz can do to someone's ego sometimes.

Some are like that, most do a good job.

It really depends in my experience of travelling to a lot of away games! Some are brilliant, will take care in understanding the different groups of people who make up a football crowd etc. But others do go into a mode where they just act like nightclub bouncers.

Again at least from what I have experienced, the general difference is if the stewards are employed by the clubs (in which case they tend to be a lot better) or if they are employed outside agencies (in which case they sometimes are actual nightclub bouncers who bring in that mentality).

In terms of why stewards from a club travelling away can help - part of that is because they will be the "better" kind (aka employed by the club). And part of is because quite often, over the course of multiple seasons, stewards and fans get to know each other and develop some level or respect for each other.

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed, the pea brains that find it acceptable to "sing" in the presence of, and to the annoyance, of other passengers need to grow up.

The other Saturday a group of tanked-up Stoke fans travelling to Bolton delayed a Blackpool bound train in excess of 30 minutes at Oxford Road by smoking on the platforms and generally being ar*eholes.

pea brain signing in!

Funny that the most signing I have ever come across was a train loan of tanked up taffys launching into "Bread of Heaven" "Land of my Fathers" "Men of Harlech" and the "Green Green Grass of home" but hey, they are rugby chaps so that's all right:roll:


Shall we get the stereotypes out of the way before discussing the topic in a mature fashion? Trainspotters.................

So on to the issue at hand: Having traveling stewards is a good idea and no different from the stewards who travel on railtours and have the job of keeping the cranks in line. They have no real powers over than public shaming and a hotline to the old bill. They work on the basis that they know you and you know them and if you mess about you will end up banned from home and away games.

PS Just for you:

Oh! me lads, ye shud a' seen w'us gannin,
Passin' the folks alang the road just as they were stannin'.
Aal the' lads and lasses there, aal wi' smiling faces,
Gannin' alang the Scotswood Road to see the Blaydon Races.

IME that's because the stewards are unnecessarily heavy-handed. It's amazing what a hi-viz can do to someone's ego sometimes.

Not my experience - but then my club doesn't hire in goons from a security company but recruits from the fan base of the club.

Sounds like police on the cheap to me. I'd rather have BTP.

You will if it kicks of - the club stewards are more about keeping the peace and suggesting people behave on the threat of losing your club membership card/season ticket.

 

[313103]

It is quite obvious that many of those commentators on here having a go at football fans have never seen what Rugby fans get up to. They aint no shrinking violets and after a few or shall i say quite a few drinks they want to fight everyone.

 

[father_jack]

Sounds like police on the cheap to me. I'd rather have BTP.

I thought there was a "like" comment button on this forum. But after not finding it I find myself agreeing.

 

[MCSHF007]

If it helps (in the interests of fairness) tanked up inconsiderate rugby fans are annoying pea brains too. Is it really that difficult to behave with consideration to those around you?

 

[Antman]

If it helps (in the interests of fairness) tanked up inconsiderate rugby fans are annoying pea brains too. Is it really that difficult to behave with consideration to those around you?

Exactly, most of us are capable of having a few beers and not causing any problem to anybody.

I saw a group of tanked up rugby fans on the tube recently acting stupidly until one of them pointed out that there were some young children looking at them, they all felt suitably embarrassed and went very quiet.

 

[Antman]

I get fed up with the inverted racism shown to British football fans. Thousands of German supporters can cause traffic chaos, throw bottles, set off flares in public places and it is the 'host' club's fault, the authorities fault - anyone else's fault apart from the offending German fans. There was a sickly apologetic stance in the Standard about how it is part of German football fan culture to march through opponents cities setting off flares etc and it wasn't really their fault that they travelled in vast numbers without tickets, created chaos, stormed gates etc.
When it's a few rowdy English football fans everyone wants the 'annoyance' dealt with, book thrown at them. Some football fans can be a nuisance but then so can many other passengers - you deal with people who are a nuisance who or whatever they may be.

I completely understand your point and I can imagine what would have been said if these had been English fans abroad.

In fairness though few if any of these Germans seemed intent on trouble and I think a few questions do need to be asked about Arsenal football club and the ticketing arrangements. I've been to a few Bundesliga games, always a cracking atmosphere and very little trouble.

 

[Essexman]

If it helps (in the interests of fairness) tanked up inconsiderate rugby fans are annoying pea brains too. Is it really that difficult to behave with consideration to those around you?

Can we add some stag & hen parties to this list.
And the occasional group of 'Hooray Henry's'.
So really we are talking about people who behave in an antisocial manner on trains, not specifically some football supporters.
Some football clubs provide stewards to assist. As do some rail tours to keep certain types of railway enthusiast in check. The other groups don't.

 

[TimboM]

It is worth mentioning that quite often having members of staff associated with the club (either police officers acting as liaison officers, or club employed stewards) can help stop some potential situations turning nasty. Certainly I have noticed an increase in many clubs taking their own stewards to work at away games for this particular reason.

This is a key point that I think is being missed a bit on this thread. The stewards travelling with Away Fans increasingly these days are long-standing stewards from the club in question.

Even at a club the size of Man United (as an example) the 'hard core' contingent that travel regularly to away games is approximately 80% made up of the same 1,000-1,500 people. The stewards that travel with them will be senior stewards who have been club stewards for many years and have a strong rapport with these particular fans. I'd argue they are more able to get a favourable response to a "quieten down please lads" than a random security guard (or even BTP) who could potential antagonise the situation rather than calm it down.

The club stewards typically have the ability to have fans' (season) tickets removed etc. - which is a major 'punishment' to a die-hard fan - so to say they're "powerless" isn't exactly correct.

If (and it's an IF) the "ambassadors" are long-standing stewards such as these then I believe that's as good an option as any - and clearly where BTP are concerned they have other much greater priorities at the moment.

 

[DarloRich]

This is a key point that I think is being missed a bit on this thread. The stewards travelling with Away Fans increasingly these days are long-standing stewards from the club in question.

Even at a club the size of Man United (as an example) the 'hard core' contingent that travel regularly to away games is approximately 80% made up of the same 1,000-1,500 people. The stewards that travel with them will be senior stewards who have been club stewards for many years and have a strong rapport with these particular fans. I'd argue they are more able to get a favourable response to a "quieten down please lads" than a random security guard (or even BTP) who could potential antagonise the situation rather than calm it down.

The club stewards typically have the ability to have fans' (season) tickets removed etc. - which is a major 'punishment' to a die-hard fan - so to say they're "powerless" isn't exactly correct.

If (and it's an IF) the "ambassadors" are long-standing stewards such as these then I believe that's as good an option as any - and clearly where BTP are concerned they have other much greater priorities at the moment.

exactly - I would add it is odd how the experts above seem happy to over look the bad behaviour and infantile antics often displayed on spotter tours and the requirement to provide stewards there..................