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Midland Mainline Class 170 Turbostars Replaced What?
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MichaelAMW
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In effect they replaced nothing, because they were introduced to provide rolling stock for the new - I expect they said "enhanced" - Midland Main Line service that MML (The TOC) provided. Roughly speaking, there was a slow and a fast every half hour and they connected cross platform at Leicester: either a Nottingham slow connecting with a Sheffield fast, or a Derby slow with a Nottingham fast.
MatthewRead
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Was it 1998 or 1999 that they first entered service because I don't know the exact date.
edwin_m
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I believe they were in service for a very small number of runs in late 1997, probably to beat the deadline so they would not be subject to the RVAR regulations.
MatthewRead
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I thought the 168 clubmans came first.
43074
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The sets were completed at Bombardier Derby in mid-late 1998, testing commenced relatively soon after with full service beginning with the May 1999 timetable change, although they had worked a limited number of additional services before the timetable change for crew familiarisation purposes etc.
The 10 centre cars (in 170101 - 110) were added in 2001 to cope with the passenger growth the new timetable generated.
70014IronDuke
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Well, that was "enhancement" wasn't it? Up until then, under late BR and MML, you'd had a mish-mash of 1 TPH sometimes express, sometimes some intermediate stops to Sheffield and ditto 1 TPH Nottinghams.
What the 170s did (or tried to do - except they didn't have the right capactiy to do it properly) was go back to the BR system introduced in 1969 IIRC and then double it.
To explain (for the beneift of the OP), from that time - with Cl 45s and LHCS of course - BR ran a semi-fast to Leicester, where it waited for an express that left St Pancras 30-35 minutes later to overtake it. The semi fast fed into the express cross-platform, and vice versa.
The express then left for Sheffield, alternating between Derby one hour, Nottingham the next. The semi-fast then followed, stopping at Loughborough and then terminating at Derby or Nottingham - whichever was not served by the express.
This gave a one hour express service (or nearly) to both Nottingham, Derby and Loughborough - if you didn't mind changing on alternate hours.
When HSTs were introduced in 1982, originaly on the expresses only, their faster timings meant the semi-fast had to depart just 10 minutes later from St Pancras (ie 50 minutes in front of the next HST) to make it to Leicester in time. I suspect this resulted in quite frequent delays all round if the semi-fast was late for whatever reason. (Maybe someone can confirm, I wasn't using the trains by then.)
Whatever, when the line went all HSTs (bar peak hour commuter services) in about 1984, BR scrapped the previous system, and ran two HSTs per hour, to Sheffield going via Derby, one to Nottingham. ie it no longer sent Sheffields via Nottingham.
This provided 2 'usable' TPH to Leicester (good for some!) - but with irregular stopping patterns at intermediate MML stations (bad for Luton/Bedford/Kettering etc).
MML inherited this system, and as you say, then introduced the 170s, which provided 2 TPH to the intermediate stops, and freeing up 2 TPH HSTs to run fast to Leicester, and on to Sheffield/Nottingham.
So this sort of doubled up the earlier BR system - except, as mentioned, the 170s didn't have enough capacity for the job! MML then introduced extra centre carriages, and later the 222s to solve the capacity problems.
(The explanation of the BR system is a bit simplified, but I think it contains the essence of the service at that time.)
Ah yes, the good old MML 170s... They were mainly used on new 'stopping' services and to destinations not previously served (Buxton, York...). This enabled the HSTs to mostly run fast between London and Leicester. Problem was with their shorter formations and cramped interiors compared to the HSTs, they were very ill-suited to an Intercity route (originally they had 2+2 seating in First!). They would've been better off ordering a Class 180-type unit.
Think the ex-MML Turbostars are all now with XC unless I'm mistaken?
Think the ex-MML Turbostars are all now with XC unless I'm mistaken?
D365
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Indeed they are.
Buxton?! I assume you mean Matlock... I think the now-withdrawn Burton-on-Trent and Barnsley extensions date from this era too?
D365
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They weren't ever intended to just be interim then, I take it?
ChilternTurbo
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Although they were not really suited to Intercity type work, I seem to remember that the first class seating was exceptionally comfortable. The buffet counter installation was neat too. Heck, I actually quite liked them!
Aren't you thinking of the Hull Trains 170s?
The replacement first class seating when the extra coaches were delivered was good - but before that it was 2+2 seating behind the drivers cab and pretty cramped.
The centre coaches (ordered later to cope with growth) had a buffet counter and 2+1 seating in First, replacing the previous arrangement
Oh interesting I hadn't realised that! Thanks 
Bletchleyite
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They were tested on the Matlock branch, but I don't know if that was the reason.
Bletchleyite
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The time when 2-car DMUs were felt suitable for such services, more interestingly. A railway still with a feel of decline in many ways.
Or more that they wanted to test the market with stock that could be easily procured. Later they were able to justify something better (222s) on the basis of the initial market testing.
And actually, given the service frequency that went before, introducing an all day stopping service at the stations between London and Leicester was actually a sign of the railway on the up.
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They still are in Scotland!
TheBigD
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D365
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Not for too much longer now...
edwin_m
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They did, but each sub-class was considered separately from the RVAR point of view. The first of a particular batch had to be in service before the deadline otherwise RVAR would apply, and since the regulations were not published until the trains in question were well on the way to completion there were very good reasons to avoid being caught by them.
The later Central 170s included stickers saying the "door close" buttons were for staff use only, to get round a bit of sloppy wording in RVAR. But they also had to append the contents of the destination display memory to a statutory instrument so they could get exemption for visual display when used on other routes.
Pretty sure I saw one in service at St Pancras on about December 22 1997.
xotGD
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I did a few runs between Loughborough and London on the 170s. No complaints. In fact, I really appreciated the additional services.
I forget how filthy St Pancras used to be!
SpacePhoenix
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Agreed! if you were to show someone a picture of St Pancras back then and a picture of St Pancras now, if they didn't know the station, I wonder how many people would think that they're two completely different stations?!
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