ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[najaB]

What is GWR going to do about losing trains where the new ones are not in service yet?

As discussed just a few posts back, juggle the timetable and sweat the assets that remain.

 

[route101]

So will Scotrail HSTs have a buffet?

 

[43096]

So will Scotrail HSTs have a buffet?

Yes - TFs being converted to buffet/first vehicles.

 

[gsnedders]

Yes - TFs being converted to buffet/first vehicles.

I'm sure it's somewhere in the previous 46 pages, but why are they doing that rather than using the existing TRFBs(?)? The lack of a kitchen meaning the windows are totally wrong?

 

[43096]

I'm sure it's somewhere in the previous 46 pages, but why are they doing that rather than using the existing TRFBs(?)? The lack of a kitchen meaning the windows are totally wrong?

It is probably easier to install a buffet module in a TF than hack about several flavours of buffet car - you do at least end up with standardised vehicles that way.

 

[route101]

I'm sure it's somewhere in the previous 46 pages, but why are they doing that rather than using the existing TRFBs(?)? The lack of a kitchen meaning the windows are totally wrong?

Nice to see Buffet . Stillcant help think that 4/5 car HSTs wont be enough , hopefully they can extend them at some stage .

 

[Clansman]

As said, there will be a buffet, and it will be entirely new - built into an existing First Class coach.

 

[Emblematic]

Nice to see Buffet . Stillcant help think that 4/5 car HSTs wont be enough , hopefully they can extend them at some stage .

Scotrail franchise agreement shows 2 6-car units in service from 2022, with 1 fewer of each 4 and 5 car sets (so 3 additional carriages needed.) Quite possible that GW or Cross Country could be releasing some of theirs by then, as both franchises will have been renewed.

 

[theblackwatch]

It is probably easier to install a buffet module in a TF than hack about several flavours of buffet car - you do at least end up with standardised vehicles that way.

Also, it would mean adding windows to the Catering Cars. The 'new' buffet cars seat 32 (taking up around 2/3rds of the coach), whereas the majority of the kitchen cars on GWR only have 17 seats with associated windows (3 on each side), although some have 23 but still only have passenger windows in half the vehicle.

 

[43096]

Also, it would mean adding windows to the Catering Cars. The 'new' buffet cars seat 32 (taking up around 2/3rds of the coach), whereas the majority of the kitchen cars on GWR only have 17 seats with associated windows (3 on each side), although some have 23 but still only have passenger windows in half the vehicle.

Yep - that was what I was getting at when I used "hack about". Your description is better!

 

[theblackwatch]

Yep - that was what I was getting at when I used "hack about". Your description is better!

Ah... I thought you were referring to the interior being hacked about. I guess we're going to see a good number of surplus (proper) catering cars and TGS vehicles - although presumable the Grand Central sets for EMT will need a TGS adding when they are taken on.

 

[CosherB]

Ah... I thought you were referring to the interior being hacked about. I guess we're going to see a good number of surplus (proper) catering cars and TGS vehicles - although presumable the Grand Central sets for EMT will need a TGS adding when they are taken on.

Apparently not.

 

[Clansman]

I thought these might interest a few folk...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow. Just wow. Superb.

The one thing I'd change is to replace the lighting with more indirect lighting. (I assume the horrid daylight tubes are being replaced with LEDs as GWR have done already on some coaches).

 

[GusB]

Wow. Just wow. Superb.

The one thing I'd change is to replace the lighting with more indirect lighting. (I assume the horrid daylight tubes are being replaced with LEDs as GWR have done already on some coaches).

The interiors do look rather good. I'm very much looking forward to trying the HSTs out when they enter service up here. I may even let the moths out and splurge for a 1st class journey for the first time in my life

 

[43096]

I thought these might interest a few folk...

There's a lot of airline seats in that standard class view which is at odds with the seating layouts we've seen so far.

 

[jingsmonty]

Wow. Just wow. Superb.

The one thing I'd change is to replace the lighting with more indirect lighting. (I assume the horrid daylight tubes are being replaced with LEDs as GWR have done already on some coaches).

Apart from the badly pitched standard class seats...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from the badly pitched standard class seats...

The pitch looks decent to me.

 

[Clansman]

There's a lot of airline seats in that standard class view which is at odds with the seating layouts we've seen so far.

They're not at odds with the seating plans at all. The render shown in my previous post shows the fifth table along (left to right, along the bottom row) looking out to the left

 

[Highland37]

Will the refurb fix the issues of creaking from the couplers when starting off? This is a common issue on the VTEC HSTs.

I like the look of the interiors but would prefer the standard Scotrail outside livery.

 

[ScotTrains]

Does anyone know the location of the plug sockets? The last time I travelled on a FGW HST, the socket was so close above the table that it meant you couldn't actually plug anything in!

 

[43096]

They're not at odds with the seating plans at all. The render shown in my previous post shows the fifth table along (left to right, along the bottom row) looking out to the left

Ta! Seems a bit of an odd one to show the render of, as at first glance it is very like the current FGW configuration and doesn't show the big improvement they are making.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does anyone know the location of the plug sockets? The last time I travelled on a FGW HST, the socket was so close above the table that it meant you couldn't actually plug anything in!

When they did up first class a year or so ago they fixed that problem by rotating the sockets but I believe it's still a problem in standard class.

Good to see that they're keeping the existing GWR first class for these trains it is absolutely superb! The standard class also looks very nice as well. These are going to be such a step change in quality for Scotrail compared to the existing fleet of 170s.

My only two concerns are whether they'll be able to keep them reliable (these HSTs are getting on a bit now as difficult as it is for some to accept ) and whether they're going to be long enough. I can easily see the four car versions of these needing to be five car within a very short period of time.

 

[Northhighland]

These interior renders do look very good. This will be a major upgrade on a class 170. Hope the reality matches the intent.

 

[Northhighland]

Should have also added, I seriously think the HST introduction will encourage a lot more people to take the train. There is a lot of business travel between Edinburgh / Glasgow and Inverness, I know a lot of people who take the car because of their perception of poor quality trains, regular overcrowding and the reliability. The reliability has improved, the HST could temp many more back to the train. Might need an extra coach or two.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have always, and will continue to maintain that they are not long enough.
They might be if the number of High Density layout airline seats were being kept but as this is not the case then no these will not be long enough .

As to a major upgrade, pritty much anything is an upgrade than a gutless 170 struggling over Slocht cooling fans working overtime and struggling to reach any speed over 30.

In terms of reliability they will I think be ok for a few years but no sooner are these in service then a replacement needs planning. The lead time from franchise start to HST in service will be 3 years by next spring, a similar time needs allowing for upgrade, the obvuous solution is if XC gets a load of new stock a major internal refitted voyager for Scottish IC work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In terms of reliability they will I think be ok for a few years but no sooner are these in service then a replacement needs planning. The lead time from franchise start to HST in service will be 3 years by next spring, a similar time needs allowing for upgrade, the obvuous solution is if XC gets a load of new stock a major internal refitted voyager for Scottish IC work.

A huge downgrade back to rattly DMUs, IOW.

Assuming electrification remains off the cards, either Class 80x or Mk5 LHCS would seem the best contenders for new - but who says what will be on the market in 20 years' time.

 

[MCR247]

I have always, and will continue to maintain that they are not long enough.

They might be if the number of High Density layout airline seats were being kept but as this is not the case then no these will not be long enough .



As to a major upgrade, pritty much anything is an upgrade than a gutless 170 struggling over Slocht cooling fans working overtime and struggling to reach any speed over 30.



In terms of reliability they will I think be ok for a few years but no sooner are these in service then a replacement needs planning. The lead time from franchise start to HST in service will be 3 years by next spring, a similar time needs allowing for upgrade, the obvuous solution is if XC gets a load of new stock a major internal refitted voyager for Scottish IC work.

If HSTs aren't long enough, how will voyagers which are very wasteful of space be long enough?

 

[47271]

Does anyone know the location of the plug sockets? The last time I travelled on a FGW HST, the socket was so close above the table that it meant you couldn't actually plug anything in!

The last few GWR HSTs I've travelled in Standard the power has been built into the front of the seat, between the seats, a bit like SE High Speed. I'd assumed that this would be retained.

I've never had a problem with power in GWR First, plenty of both 240v and USB by the table and easy to get at.

Like the interiors. Tartan carpet, eh.

 

[Northhighland]

A huge downgrade back to rattly DMUs, IOW.

Assuming electrification remains off the cards, either Class 80x or Mk5 LHCS would seem the best contenders for new - but who says what will be on the market in 20 years' time.

More like 30 years time! Mk5 LHCS would seem to be a sensible option. Certainly after HST's won't want to back to DMU's with Engines underneath, don't know what 80x will be like but all others I have been on are pretty noisy compared to HST.