"Heavy Rail" Tramways Still In Situ

[michael74]

A lot in Birkenhead, this is only a small amount, not including all the tracks in the dockside. Interestingly its still connected to the railway near Rock Ferry and Birkenhead North TMD, it wouldn't take a lot to reinstate, especially as far as the West Float. I did hear a rumour that Network Rail have to keep part of the infrastructure intact if the UK went to war etc, but I don't really believe that.

//https://goo.gl/maps/W8QDckq6bjq

https://goo.gl/maps/2DdYqkXxuXn

https://goo.gl/maps/xAv8zh9KGGH2

 

[Mr Fizz]

At the end of Smith St in Coventry there is the remains of a tramway/branch line set amongst the cobbles. Presumably for an old factory.

 

[Dr A.Johnston]

A lot in Birkenhead, this is only a small amount, not including all the tracks in the dockside. Interestingly its still connected to the railway near Rock Ferry and Birkenhead North TMD, it wouldn't take a lot to reinstate, especially as far as the West Float. I did hear a rumour that Network Rail have to keep part of the infrastructure intact if the UK went to war etc, but I don't really believe that.

//https://goo.gl/maps/W8QDckq6bjq

https://goo.gl/maps/2DdYqkXxuXn

https://goo.gl/maps/xAv8zh9KGGH2

Re Birkenhead
What you did hear is partly correct. MDHB as was have retained the tracks south of the docks for in the event of war the port can be reactivated easily, as Birkenhead is Military graded, whereas Liverpool is Military neutral and forbids Military operations (apart for a small section where the reserves are now based).

However, the rail system is not NR but belongs to the port authority and has been severed both ends now, a couple of roads have now been tarmacked over where level crossings existed but the rails are still in place and can be easily uncovered.

Suggestions have been made in recent times that the new ferry/liner terminal at Birkenhead may gain a direct rail link for passenger/freight but we will see, as the rails are still in the roads be it tarmacked over.

 

[daikilo]

I suggest we need to define what is a tramway and what is not!

It is currently generally considered that a tramway is designed to carry passengers and runs on rails which may be laid in a road-surface or may be on a seperate right of way. In the 18th and 19th century some early mineral railways were known as tramways especially when traction was by horses.

Excluded are thus dock railways (which Weymouth was despite being incorrectly called a tramway), access to main-line stations like the Liverpool liner terminal, crane tracks, ...

Liverpool used to have classic heavy rail including underground and overhead, street running trams, a liner terminal adjacent to the docks, a dock railway system and lots of crane tracks alongside the berths. Birkenhead was similar although without an overhead, and Woodside station gave access to the Mersey ferries rather than liners.

 

[najaB]

I suggest we need to define what is a tramway and what is not!

The modern usage seems to be where heavy rail and road vehicles share the same right of way, excluding level crossings. So skewed level crossings would be excluded, but shared bridges would be included.

 

[snowball]

The Porthmadog example is interesting in that the railway runs along the road for a considerable distance but it is operated like a level crossing, with road vehicles excluded from the shared length when a train is about to use it.

 

[najaB]

The Porthmadog example is interesting in that the railway runs along the road for a considerable distance but it is operated like a level crossing, with road vehicles excluded from the shared length when a train is about to use it.

I think that still counts as it's far from being a skewed level crossing - there is a substantial distance over which the road and tracks are parallel.

 

[daikilo]

The modern usage seems to be where heavy rail and road vehicles share the same right of way, excluding level crossings. So skewed level crossings would be excluded, but shared bridges would be included.

Really? The dictionaries I have consulted specifically describe a tramway as the way on which a tram travels, where a tram is defined as a passenger vehicle. As a definition, it has nothing to do with shared road space and some suggest could be a cable-car.

 

[snowball]

However as I understand it the term "heavy rail" in the OP excludes trams (notwithstanding the fact that I mentioed Metrolink above - that was a digression).

I took "tramway" in the OP to mean rails in the carriageway.

The OP gave the example of the Weymouth tramway, which when in use carried trains, not trams.

 

[AlterEgo]

It is currently generally considered that a tramway is designed to carry passengers and runs on rails which may be laid in a road-surface or may be on a seperate right of way. In the 18th and 19th century some early mineral railways were known as tramways especially when traction was by horses.

Excluded are thus dock railways (which Weymouth was despite being incorrectly called a tramway), access to main-line stations like the Liverpool liner terminal, crane tracks, ...

What is the actual difference between a dock railway and a tramway (other than one is in a dock)? How is Weymouth not, in practice, a tramway?

A tramway, I was always taught, was like a railway, but may (or may not) run on a road. A tramway is generally lightly engineered and runs with less sophisticated/no signalling. Operations are less formalised and may rely on line of sight.

The Brill Tramway is a good example. So, to my mind, is Weymouth, with trains having to be accompanied at walking pace by men in hi-vis.

 

[sciisfun]

not been used in a while, but this one still has the turntable in place as well, I'm adding it as I often drive on this plaza. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7168808,-3.5302334,3a,75y,80.93h,78.02t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOAA1wjbid3u2vKRHOgeHU865nJXom2AqJP8D5j!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOAA1wjbid3u2vKRHOgeHU865nJXom2AqJP8D5j%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi2.3176718-ya352.02014-ro-0.6842134-fo100!7i5376!8i2688

 

[daikilo]

What is the actual difference between a dock railway and a tramway (other than one is in a dock)? How is Weymouth not, in practice, a tramway?

A tramway, I was always taught, was like a railway, but may (or may not) run on a road. A tramway is generally lightly engineered and runs with less sophisticated/no signalling. Operations are less formalised and may rely on line of sight.

The Brill Tramway is a good example. So, to my mind, is Weymouth, with trains having to be accompanied at walking pace by men in hi-vis.

As far as I am aware, all traffic on the Weymouth harbour branch came off or joined the main line including goods traffic such as fuel tanks. I am not aware of any tram-type equipment ever being used on the line nor any services operating from the harbour which did not eventually join the main-line.

However, it was not a railway run by a harbour board but was a branch of BR, and run by them, giving access to the harbour facilities.

 

[Busaholic]

These are part of the once-extensive railway system that the Port of London Authority (PLA) ran throughout the Royal Docks Group and which was linked to the former Great Eastern branch line to North Woolwich.

Not to be confused with the very intensive road tram services that were run to the Victoria and Albert Docks before they were superseded by trolleybuses just before World War II.

 

[Cowley]

not been used in a while, but this one still has the turntable in place as well, I'm adding it as I often drive on this plaza. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7168808,-3.5302334,3a,75y,80.93h,78.02t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOAA1wjbid3u2vKRHOgeHU865nJXom2AqJP8D5j!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOAA1wjbid3u2vKRHOgeHU865nJXom2AqJP8D5j%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi2.3176718-ya352.02014-ro-0.6842134-fo100!7i5376!8i2688

I was wondering about mentioning that. There's another wagon turntable buried underneath the building behind where the photo is taken. Not many other remains now though unfortunately.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There are still traces of the goods tramway which ran to Huddersfield Gas Works in place. Walking down Gasworks Street towards the football ground, when you reach what is now the entrance to the Gas Club (a social club and watering-hole) the entrance to the car park still has rails in place. Pretty much all other traces have been obliterated though.

 

[najaB]

Really? The dictionaries I have consulted...

Which was precisely the point I was making - modern informal usage versus traditional dictionary definition.

 

[Holly]

Re Birkenhead
What you did hear is partly correct. MDHB as was have retained the tracks south of the docks for in the event of war the port can be reactivated easily, as Birkenhead is Military graded, whereas Liverpool is Military neutral and forbids Military operations (apart for a small section where the reserves are now based).

However, the rail system is not NR but belongs to the port authority and has been severed both ends now, a couple of roads have now been tarmacked over where level crossings existed but the rails are still in place and can be easily uncovered.

Suggestions have been made in recent times that the new ferry/liner terminal at Birkenhead may gain a direct rail link for passenger/freight but we will see, as the rails are still in the roads be it tarmacked over.

Yes, Birkenhead docks are in a class by themselves.
The Haymarket tunnel is protected for possible future reopening. And there is/was another rail connection at the other end near the Birkenhead North depot.

If the "Wirral Waters" project ever actually happened (hah!) then quite likely the dock lines would be used for light rail (trams). I don't see that actually happening unless/until global sea level rise becomes an issue (25 years out?).

 

[reddragon]

Last bit of tramway from Reading South line

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.451...mwzHGyODlXkf6RFDYjeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Caernarfon car park next to the castle, you can still see the tracks

 

[Sox]

Amlwch?

 

[50031]

Sharpness docks in Gloucestershire still has most tracks in place, including rails that share the docks road over a swing bridge. A couple of speed humps block the rails but otherwise all in place. Vale of Berkeley railway would like to run trains on it but may be difficult due to various companies running across some sections of track

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Amlwch?

I lived in Amlwch until I was 17 and I don't recall any lenghths of shared road and rail - unless you count the very last bit in the Octel Works itself. The Octel works branch was a light railway that had three level crossings but otherwise had its own right of way.

 

[Sox]

I lived in Amlwch until I was 17 and I don't recall any lenghths of shared road and rail - unless you count the very last bit in the Octel Works itself. The Octel works branch was a light railway that had three level crossings but otherwise had its own right of way.

I was in Amlwch earlier this week, there are a least some road crossing sections/gates in situ leading to the former Octel works (although, thinking about it, not really tramways).

You surprise me when you say the branch was a light railway as its latter purpose (up to the early nineties) heavy industrial freight?

 

[j.crocker355]

Milton Park, an industrial estate in Didcot still has parts of the old MOD railway in situ hidden at the back of one of the overflow car parks..

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I was in Amlwch earlier this week, there are a least some road crossing sections/gates in situ leading to the former Octel works (although, thinking about it, not really tramways).

You surprise me when you say the branch was a light railway as its latter purpose (up to the early nineties) heavy industrial freight?

Yes, I'm pretty certain it was built under a Light Railway Order in the early 1950s - although it did in fact use full-width gates at the three places where it crossed a public road, and there was certainly nothing 'light' about the traffic it handled.

 

[Sox]

Chester?

 

[najaB]

Chester?

At first glance they look like tram tracks, but I'm likely to be proven wrong.

 

[daikilo]

At first glance they look like tram tracks, but I'm likely to be proven wrong.

Chester trams ran until about 1930 and had a guage of 3ft6in. If the track is that guage and the photo is in Chester, then I would guess it to be leading from the back entrance of what was the tram/bus depot near General station. I guess the signs at the end of the road are for the Tramways student accommodation.

 

[Sox]

Chester trams ran until about 1930 and had a guage of 3ft6in. If the track is that guage and the photo is in Chester, then I would guess it to be leading from the back entrance of what was the tram/bus depot near General station. I guess the signs at the end of the road are for the Tramways student accommodation.

Yes, that looks to be the case: