Malcolmffc
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Carne is responsible for ensuring that the appropriate processes and oversights are in place to prevent such incidents from ever happening.
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Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes
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Carne is responsible for ensuring that the appropriate processes and oversights are in place to prevent such incidents from ever happening.
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Between 7am and 9am this morning, there was just 1 train between Surbtion and Wimbledon. Also the same for Clapham Junction. Last Tuesday there were 8 an hour! Can they have last week's timetable back please. Haha. :joke, although train figures are true:
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Foggycorner
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In answer to spacepenix question about signalling testing short answer is yes
all route combinations are tested and is easiest without any trains about as you can then simulate trains running and platforms empty or half occupied
all route combinations are tested and is easiest without any trains about as you can then simulate trains running and platforms empty or half occupied
GW43125
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Main part of the possession overran by just under three hours...
SpacePhoenix
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Would some of the drivers of the trains last night, once it was just the ex international platforms in use have been route conducted into the platforms 21-24?
Then push it back to 16.00, then to 18.00 then "until end of service" - what a shambles!
coppercapped
Established Member
And you would have managed it better?
Not sure how much accuracy to ascribe to this map but OpenTrainTimes signalling map for Waterloo is still showing P1, P2 and P3 as SHUT.
http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wat
http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wat
This word has been used several times today on these forums (one to describe Northern train services).
There may be problems with the matters discussed but I don't know about blood and guts everywhere being part of them.
SpacePhoenix
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Looking right from there, it looks like the signaller has set themselves a reminder that them platforms will be shut until approx 13:55
randompixel
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nlogax
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coppercapped
Established Member
An hour ago they were open and working, according to the map.
Whilst I wouldn't want to use the word shambles, I did think 12.00 was rather optimistic to say the least. It's now 14.00 that disruption will last until but the 14.07 Guildford to Waterloo is cancelled and the 14.28 Guildford to Waterloo is showing as delayed, as is the 14.00 Ascot service but that might be for other reasons.
The 13.15 Waterloo to Haslemere hasn't left Waterloo yet and at some point on its route towards Haslemere, it would go past 14.00, so that would count too. I'm sure similar oil be find for other routes too.
This then begs the question, at what point can one class disruption as over. Only when the final disrupted train has completed its journey? When most trains are no longer disrupted? Something else entirely? How many is most?
WelshBluebird
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What time was the handover supposed to happen this morning if everything had gone to plan? Feels to be as if there just wasn't enough contingency in the plan (or was it in the plan, but already used up by other things?). Tbh if I was a commuter going into Waterloo I probably would have assumed a delay today and made other plans!
As always with signal commissioning, no contingency can allow for a problem that is identified immediately in advance of hand back. I don't know what happened here, but that seems likely.
When staff strike from say midday to midday, there is a period either side where less trains run as services get up to the right point again. Could they do a phased return of services just in case problems occur? It was massive project and one can't expecting things to always go perfectly.
There were lots of stopping services running from Woking to Waterloo this morning, not all but a fair number. However as the usual timetable doesn't allow them to stop at any station between Surbtion and Waterloo, they did just that. I. E. Skip them all as timetables. If they could have diverted one or two trains onto the slow line, then stations such as Wimbledon, Earlsfield and Clapham Junction could have been served. They were able to do it last week with a planned reduced timetable. Bear in mind only 1 out of 8 trains between Surbtion and Waterloo were running on the slow line between 7am and 9am today. Last week they were running 16 trains in that time, abet other services from other lines, that join the slow line north of Surbtion, were not running. Some if those weren't running today either. Chessington Branch for example.
I know this was unplanned but it seems they are not able to be flexible when things go wrong. If they cannot be flexible then perhaps a phased return would be better.
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swt_passenger
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Route into P1-P3 appears to be back in use as of 1411. At least there's trains in P1 and P2 as I type...
It would appear that P2 & 3 are back in passenger service. However, boards still showing a bunch of delays and cancellations: 14:03 to Teddington, 14:09 to Guildford, 14:12 to Shepperton, haven't moved yet, 14:20 to Exeter cancelled.
WelshBluebird
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Obviously you have to be careful with what you read online, but I saw that apparently it was an issue while testing signalling after works had finished. If that is the case then I really do have to ask why on earth was testing being done the morning the station was due to fully reopen? Surely common sense would have said if testing wasn't due to happen until today then wait until tomorrow to try to run a full service?
Now end of service - here's hoping all better tomorrow.....
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Juniper Driver
Established Member
Of course the passengers know best as usual.I've read the tweets.
That's what I did - tomorrow is the day on which I attempt to resume my "normal" commute. Not everyone will be in a position to do that, though.
Signalling is always the last discipline to complete and hand over, simply because it's not possible to finally connect up all the external track circuit bonds to the rails and the cables to point machines until the civil and permanent way work is complete. Interlocking and panel/vdu etc is all pretested, either well in advance in the office for computer based systems or earlier during the work while the heavy trackwork is being done, and using test switch panels to simulate the exterior equipment if a relay-based system. Teething problems with some exterior equipment may not become apparent until that final changeover, and it's possible there can be other underlying causes, say a poorly-aligned new switch preventing a point machine making detection, or a mistake in traction bonding shorting out a track circuit. No excuse clearly but illustrative of the tension in that final stage of the work.
WelshBluebird
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Oh don't get me wrong, I am not claiming I know best. And I am more than aware of the ludicrous comments that will be coming from some people.
I am just talking from my point of view from my career. Testing happens in software development too, but we certainly don't put a plan together where a new build is released to live on the same morning that testing is planned to finish.
Which is why I am interested, because to have a plan that finely balanced that something failing testing causes the issues that it did is a massive contact to what I used to.
I would guess any contingency was eaten up by the derailment incident.
Also, I'm in software too and I do understand what you're saying, but it's not a fair comparison with bricks and mortar. After all, you can't just downgrade if it all goes wrong, or fix bugs as easily, and if a train station 'crashes' you're in some serious trouble.
I actually decided not to travel today. Not something I considered during the three weeks of works if I ever need to get a train.
Now I didn't get up until 7.45 and maybe if I'd got up earlier I might have attempted it.
I see disruption until end of service but it's due to multiple incidents, which to be fair, they wouldn't have known about this morning.
In addition to the signalling testing:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/168727.aspx
They are doing a phased bring up of services. I think that should have been the plan in advance but then hindsight is wonderful. Maybe it was intended for it to be fully tested yesterday but other earlier issues prevented it.
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WelshBluebird
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I hope people don't take my comments the wrong way by the way. The amount of work that has been done whilst keeping at least some of the station open is pretty impressive in my eyes. And I am certainly not throwing my toys out the pram like some people on Twitter have been (I had a go at SWR for a mess up at Bristol last night, so am not in the business of defending companies normally either).
But in that case, why not be open about it? Overnight they were still saying everything was running as planned.
Now I can't disagree at all with that! Apart from the fact that as you can't downgrade back to the version, then contingency is even more important.
But in that case, why not be open about it? Overnight they were still saying everything was running as planned.
Also, I'm in software too and I do understand what you're saying, but it's not a fair comparison with bricks and mortar. After all, you can't just downgrade if it all goes wrong, or fix bugs as easily, and if a train station 'crashes' you're in some serious trouble.
Now I can't disagree at all with that! Apart from the fact that as you can't downgrade back to the version, then contingency is even more important.
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