class 380 mock up

[darrel]

scotrail have put on display a mock up of the new class 380
here are my photos from todays press launch of the class 380 mock up in Glasgow central
http://darrel817.fotopic.net/c1693671.html

 

[F Great Eastern]

Looking very good, apart from the front part which looks a bit ugly, although the real thing should look better as the textures and finish to the front look not like a normal train.

No doubt the gutter press (The Herald) will find some way of critcising it though and about how bad First are doing.

 

[Techniquest]

Oh dear, that is the most HORRIBLE thing I've ever seen. I feel sorry for the Glaswegians and for that matter the rest of Scotland putting up with such a disgusting looking thing!

 

[73110]

Good lord that is one weird looking train!

 

[jon0844]

Wow, the most ugly thing I've ever seen in my life - and the train isn't great either. Ho ho ho!

Actually, the train is the ugliest thing I think I've ever seen - and that includes the trains that run from Denmark to Sweden and look like the locomotive has gone off and left the train on its own!

Nice photos too, taken at a variety of jaunty angles; it's good to be able to counter anyone that might say "Ah, yes, but it looks great if you look at it from this angle..". Sorry, that angle doesn't exist - except perhaps from space, when you're looking the other way.

Is there enough yellow on the front and what's with the 'futuristic' lines* that look like the train was used in Total Recall or Robocop?

* Meaning it will be dated before the train even rolls off the production line.

 

[CCF23]

Defiantly different and very ugly. I remember i posted about this class on a most ugly train thread a few months ago.

 

[Daimler]

Utterly Hideous.

On a more practical note, though, this is a Desiro, yes? If so, why, why, why, why does it appear to taper inwards - other Desiros don't, and this means that they offer far superior interor space as a result - or at least they feel like they do. Looks quite comfy inside, but annoyingly small tables are a gripe.

Overall, a disappointment from a company I like.

 

[me123]

Oh dear, that is the most HORRIBLE thing I've ever seen. I feel sorry for the Glaswegians and for that matter the rest of Scotland putting up with such a disgusting looking thing!

We've put up with Alex Salmond for about a year now, so that's not as bad.

I'm not sure, I'm waiting to see it in person before I make any comments. It's definitely different, and I wonder if that's good or bad. The front's definitely odd (looks a bit like a cross between a 333 and a 350 with a slope). I'm not going to jump at ugly (but then again, I've always defended the 380s).

The interior looks quite good, although it's hard to tell since they plastered posters on the windows. I'm not sure if it's just been a bit of an unlucky shot, but I hope this doesn't happen with all the seats; I thought they'd have learned that people like to have windows! But I can see power sockets; fantastic

Finally, I think the livery looks good on the side of the train.

 

[devon_metro]

Quite for what practical reason the front corridor is designed like that is beyond me :?

 

[GNERman]

looks gorgeous...
but doesn't look like a 333 at all...

 

[Mojo]

Nice pics - but why exactly is money being spent on designing *another* class of EMU. Are they somewhat lighter/cheaper/more efficient - if not then I can't see why we another different class is being created when we already have two modern EMU types on the market (Electrostar & Desiro), both of which are quite customisable.

 

[route:oxford]

Great all-round vision there...

Does the driver sit at either end or in a "pod" somewhere else in the train watching monitors? He'd deffo get a better view with a 32" screen and a selection of camera outputs.

 

[Jordy]

Front looks awful! Inside looks like a standard Desiro, so nothing special really IMO!

 

[me123]

Quite for what practical reason the front corridor is designed like that is beyond me :?

I read somewhere it's something to with better crumple zones; not sure how true that is, though.

As for the 333 comment I made; I was just focussing on the curvy-ness of the front-bottom. Otherwise, nothing like 333s whatsoever!

I still think "ugly" is a bit harsh, some things out there!

 

[whoosh]

Great all-round vision there...

Does the driver sit at either end or in a "pod" somewhere else in the train watching monitors? He'd deffo get a better view with a 32" screen and a selection of camera outputs.

Actually, the front corridor connection sloping back like that may give better visibility to the driver, particularly spotting track workers etc. on tight right-hand curves - than if it stuck out vertically.

The interior of the cab looks good - a proper flat desk that you can get your knees under rather than the sloping nonsense on Meridians/Voyagers which end level with your kneecaps! Also it looks like the right hand side of the driver's area of the cab (with the two telephone handsets) is folded slightly across the front connecting door whilst the cab is in use, making it more open and spacious.

The outside is a bit ugly though!

Nice pics - but why exactly is money being spent on designing *another* class of EMU. Are they somewhat lighter/cheaper/more efficient - if not then I can't see why we another different class is being created when we already have two modern EMU types on the market (Electrostar & Desiro), both of which are quite customisable.

The tapering of the bodyside has a 313/314/315/507/508 look to it. As some of the routes these trains work on involve tube tunnels (Drayton Park to Moorgate, and Merseyrail - which may have certain loading gauge restrictions meaning those classes of train have tapered bodysides), the builder might've designed this train with those routes in mind too. Those classes are all up for replacement fairly soon, so "another" type of train will be needed.

 

[ukrob]

Optimistic speedo. They are replacing 90mph stock yes?

 

[Pumbaa]

I like it - front especially. I think the front ends is to do with the HSE requirements. 360s were changed from gangway to slab end because they weren't happy with driver visibility. So I think it's to remedy that.

 

[Daimler]

I like it - front especially. I think the front ends is to do with the HSE requirements. 360s were changed from gangway to slab end because they weren't happy with driver visibility. So I think it's to remedy that.

Perhaps, but if that's the case, how come LM are being delivered 350s with gangways?

 

[90019]

Optimistic speedo. They are replacing 90mph stock yes?

I think some will be doing the Airdrie-Bathgate link, which is over 90mph, IIRC this is one of the reasons for the 320s being cascaded from the route, because they can only do 90.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps, but if that's the case, how come LM are being delivered 350s with gangways?

Maybe because the order was from before the HSE stuck it's nose in?

 

[whoosh]

It might not be just the visibility whilst driving. The Great Eastern lines are Drver Only Operated, so drivers will need to see the mirrors/monitors on the platforms. London Midland trains have guards.

 

[ukrob]

I think some will be doing the Airdrie-Bathgate link, which is over 90mph,

I still think having a 140mph speedo is overkill for what will be a 100mph (I assume?) unit

 

[Daimler]

I think some will be doing the Airdrie-Bathgate link, which is over 90mph, IIRC this is one of the reasons for the 320s being cascaded from the route, because they can only do 90.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Maybe because the order was from before the HSE stuck it's nose in?

I dunno about that - 360s began to be delivered in 2000 (to FGE, I assume!). Heathrow Connect received theirs in 2005. London Midland, however, only began running trains in 2007 - and announced they'd buy 350/2s at this time. All I can think of is that Siemens changed the gangway design between times?

 

[Pumbaa]

Perhaps, but if that's the case, how come LM are being delivered 350s with gangways?

The original 350s were 450s once, so before the 360s existed in actual body. The /2s are just a subclass of a design already operating, and as such an extension order. The 380s are a new design, and as such subject to HSE guidelines.

 

[F Great Eastern]

360's designed for FGE and introduced by FGE in 2002-3. Went very well as Dave Kaye will no doubt tell you if you've ever had the pleasure of meeting him.

Originally the 360's did have a gangway to connect units, there are photos on the web if you look hard enough.

 

[Daimler]

The original 350s were 450s once, so before the 360s existed in actual body. The /2s are just a subclass of a design already operating, and as such an extension order. The 380s are a new design, and as such subject to HSE guidelines.

That makes sense...just goes to show the complete stupidity of the HSE though!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Personally, I think it look fabulous. I can't help feeling sometimes on here that if it doesn't look like a HST, it isn't worthy of the railway.

IMO, it leaves behind the take it or leave it looks of the rest of the desiro fleet and is refreshingly attractive. It is certainly among the best looking trains that will be in service on the railway. Siemens have produced a product there that is back at the same level of attractiveness as the 332 and 333.

Well done Siemens. I love how the railway moves forward and embraces modernity. This unit certainly does that.

 

[me123]

I think some will be doing the Airdrie-Bathgate link, which is over 90mph, IIRC this is one of the reasons for the 320s being cascaded from the route, because they can only do 90.

The trains will only be running to Ayrshire and Inverclyde, although I imagine they'll be running across the whole electric network to a more limited extent (in the same way the 318s can be seen on Cathcart, North Clyde and North Berwick runs from time to time). I'm not sure if the max speed is 90 or 100. At the moment, Inverclyde diagrams are timetabled for 75mph running, for when 314s can step in. I'm not sure if it's possible to go faster and, if it is, would 320s be operating the occasional service anyway?

AIUI, 334s and 318s will be confined to North Clyde and Argyle routes; I imagine also that 322s will be based at Bathgate, but I'm not sure if they'd still need to go to Shields Road. They could also end up being retired. 320s will be based on Cathcart alone, although as I've said they could go to Inverclyde from time to time like the 314s currently do.

 

[Bittern]

It looks fantastic in person. Saw it today, and damn sure I'll be going back into Central to see it again before the 20th (I have to be there anyway so why not?)

 

[90019]

The trains will only be running to Ayrshire and Inverclyde, although I imagine they'll be running across the whole electric network to a more limited extent (in the same way the 318s can be seen on Cathcart, North Clyde and North Berwick runs from time to time). I'm not sure if the max speed is 90 or 100. At the moment, Inverclyde diagrams are timetabled for 75mph running, for when 314s can step in. I'm not sure if it's possible to go faster and, if it is, would 320s be operating the occasional service anyway?

It seems odd to have the line elctrified including 100mph sections, but not having stock capable of at least 90mph running on it.
I know that some cascaded 170s or more likely 158s will be used on some services, but it doesnt seem right to use 75mph stock, like the 320s, on a line with 90mph sections and stock that'll likely be able to do at least 100mph on lines that are more 75-90mph (afaik).

AIUI, 334s and 318s will be confined to North Clyde and Argyle routes; I imagine also that 322s will be based at Bathgate, but I'm not sure if they'd still need to go to Shields Road. They could also end up being retired. 320s will be based on Cathcart alone, although as I've said they could go to Inverclyde from time to time like the 314s currently do.

I dont think the 322s are likely to be retired just yet; they may be a small fleet, but they are only used on the North Berwick shuttles and are well suited to it; being 4 cars and capable of 100mph.

 

[me123]

I'm not sure if the 75mph 320s will be used; it's just speculation because of the current usage of 314s on similar duties. With the huge net gain of units, it may well be that this isn't going to happen regularly.

I don't think the 322s will be retired, but I think that if Scotrail can get rid of them and run the service with 334s and 318s they would consider it; although they have a slightly lower max speed, it keeps a more uniform fleet that's much cheaper. The 322s must be a royal pain, with those silly services to Glasgow thrice a day. It would, of course, depend on the timetables for North Berwick runs if this was possible. But FCC could definitely make use of the extra stock, and I'm sure other TOCs would argue that they could as well.