EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[yorksrob]

Cornwall is on my list of future destinations to go but how long it takes to get there (unless flying to Newquay) is an unattractive point and HS2 won't change that.

How long it takes to get there is one of the positive points for me. That said, I value resilience (the knowledge I will get there eventually) hence why I fully support reopening the Okehampton route to Plymouth.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How long it takes to get there is one of the positive points for me. That said, I value resilience (the knowledge I will get there eventually) hence why I fully support reopening the Okehampton route to Plymouth.

From the North-West to Cornwall, the M6 and the M5 take you a great deal of the way and then the A30 (like the A55 in North Wales) has been greatly improved over the years.

 

[yorksrob]

From the North-West to Cornwall, the M6 and the M5 take you a great deal of the way and then the A30 (like the A55 in North Wales) has been greatly improved over the years.

We have excellent motorways in Yorkshire, which hasn't so far negated the need for railways (if anything, we have more than the South West !

 

[J-2739]

Brighton's weather for July this year:
- 10 days of weather at least 1oC above the average
- 13 days of weather at the average temperature
- 8 days of weather at least 1oC below the average

With an official heatwave between 5th and 10th July, with temperatures hitting 29 on the 6th.

So a good July in Brighton in terms of temperatures.

August is obviously not complete yet but so far 15/25 days have been at the average or above the average.

When we get an occasional very hot and dry summer some people seem to be forget what a typical British summer is like.

I'll admit that July was a bit average (hot day at the start), but it hasn't impressed me compared to last year.

We have excellent motorways in Yorkshire, which hasn't so far negated the need for railways (if anything, we have more than the South West !

I think Yorkshire has the most motorway routes outside London and the South East?

 

[yorksrob]

I'll admit that July was a bit average (hot day at the start), but it hasn't impressed me compared to last year.



I think Yorkshire has the most motorway routes outside London and the South East?

Indeed. I believe Leeds used to consider itself 'motorway city' in an unconvincing attempt to emulate Detroit's 'MotorCity' in spite of our lack of a Motown equivalent (Soft Cell and Chumbawumba came later).

 

[radamfi]

Pleased with the news about immigration coming down though.

Skilled Europeans are leaving in their droves because they are not being made welcome here and they have got the rest of Europe to choose from, so why stay in Britain? If you think that immigration will fall in the long run, that's not likely. The government may talk tough on immigration, yet they know it is essential because of the ageing population. At the moment, Britain currently imposes very strict restrictions on immigration from outside the EU, but if Europeans no longer come, the immigration will have to come from places that Brexiteers approve of even less, such as Africa and Asia.

If indeed the British economy does falter, due to the inability to attract skilled migrants because they prefer other European countries, the British unemployed will no longer have the option to work in Europe like the tradespeople in "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet".

I think Yorkshire has the most motorway routes outside London and the South East?

There is also a comprehensive motorway network west of the Pennines.
Economic success doesn't necessarily follow from road building.

 

[Groningen]

So 1 Pound is now 1,10 Euro.

 

[yorksrob]

So 1 Pound is now 1,10 Euro.

And when I visited the Netherlands this year I didn't feel as though I was getting a wonderful bargain, nor did it seem as though I was getting screwed over.

I can remember having discussions with friends about twenty years ago about how we should join the Euro because "the strong pound was killing exports"

 

[Howardh]

I think Yorkshire has the most motorway routes outside London and the South East?

Yes, us Lankys built them so we could get out quicker.

 

[HSTEd]

Skilled Europeans are leaving in their droves because they are not being made welcome here and they have got the rest of Europe to choose from, so why stay in Britain? If you think that immigration will fall in the long run, that's not likely. The government may talk tough on immigration, yet they know it is essential because of the ageing population. At the moment, Britain currently imposes very strict restrictions on immigration from outside the EU, but if Europeans no longer come, the immigration will have to come from places that Brexiteers approve of even less, such as Africa and Asia.

Or the increasing costs of labour will force greater use of automation.
Do you really believe the government would get away with cutting EU migration and then increasing migration from such parts of the world as Africa or Asia?

More likely the price of labour will recorrect to a higher level and automation will kick in. And honestly I am not sure vast numbers of soul destroying poorly renumerated jobs are good for society anyway.

 

[Howardh]

Skilled Europeans are leaving in their droves because they are not being made welcome here and they have got the rest of Europe to choose from, so why stay in Britain? If you think that immigration will fall in the long run, that's not likely. The government may talk tough on immigration, yet they know it is essential because of the ageing population. At the moment, Britain currently imposes very strict restrictions on immigration from outside the EU, but if Europeans no longer come, the immigration will have to come from places that Brexiteers approve of even less, such as Africa and Asia.

If indeed the British economy does falter, due to the inability to attract skilled migrants because they prefer other European countries, the British unemployed will no longer have the option to work in Europe like the tradespeople in "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet".



There is also a comprehensive motorway network west of the Pennines.
Economic success doesn't necessarily follow from road building.

Brexiters keep telling me they don't mind more immigration as long as it's "controlled" which is a bit like saying my lot are Ok because the five they let in were controlled. It beggars belief how much they are trying to self justify rather than admit what we will get is probably as close to being in the EU as being in, and we shouldn't have wasted all this money leaving.
More immigration, a tanked Stirling, jobs on the line, possible loss of tax revenue to pay our pensions, hospitals, schools....yep, really worth it.

 

[najaB]

More likely the price of labour will recorrect to a higher level and automation will kick in. And honestly I am not sure vast numbers of soul destroying poorly renumerated jobs are good for society anyway.

Looking forwards to all those automated nursing and care jobs, etc.

 

[fowler9]

Brexiters keep telling me they don't mind more immigration as long as it's "controlled" which is a bit like saying my lot are Ok because the five they let in were controlled. It beggars belief how much they are trying to self justify rather than admit what we will get is probably as close to being in the EU as being in, and we shouldn't have wasted all this money leaving.
More immigration, a tanked Stirling, jobs on the line, possible loss of tax revenue to pay our pensions, hospitals, schools....yep, really worth it.

I agree. You know what, loads of other EU countries have restricted immigration from EU and None EU countries completely in line with EU rules and we just didn't bother. And now our fantastic negotiators are asking the EU if they mind us just having a open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and are acting all offended when the EU kind of role their eyes. It absolutely wrecks my head. The Brexiters seem to be wondering why they can't just do what the hell they want. Some o them are a special kind of stupid. You know "Why can't we have an open border with the Republic of Ireland?". Because it is part of the EU. Idiots.

 

[HSTEd]

Looking forwards to all those automated nursing and care jobs, etc.

Nursing jobs can be partially displaced by automation to reduce much of the non direct contact stuff that they currently have to do.
My mother has been a nurse/midwife for nearly fifty years and there are various ways that significant amounts of her job could be streamlined through the deployment of various technologies.

And care jobs can be partially streamlined through the pending deployment of biometric sensors built into furniture.

Its not a total replacement, but even a few percent increase in productivity is potentially huge - and wipes out the commonly quoted deficit in staff numbers.

And let's not even get started on the potentially huge automation gains in agriculture, especially with things like RTK and the rise of 'precision farming'.

 

[fowler9]

Nursing jobs can be partially displaced by automation to reduce much of the non direct contact stuff that they currently have to do.
My mother has been a nurse/midwife for nearly fifty years and there are various ways that significant amounts of her job could be streamlined through the deployment of various technologies.

And care jobs can be partially streamlined through the pending deployment of biometric sensors built into furniture.

Its not a total replacement, but even a few percent increase in productivity is potentially huge - and wipes out the commonly quoted deficit in staff numbers.

And let's not even get started on the potentially huge automation gains in agriculture, especially with things like RTK and the rise of 'precision farming'.

Who is going to pay for all these peoples benefits when their jobs get automated? No one in work seems to want to pay more tax and they hate paying for scroungers. There aren't enough call centre or cleaning jobs for everyone. My mum was a nurse to by the way.

 

[HSTEd]

Who is going to pay for all these peoples benefits when their jobs get automated? No one in work seems to want to pay more tax and they hate paying for scroungers. There aren't enough call centre or cleaning jobs for everyone. My mum was a nurse to by the way.

But I am told we are going to have catastrophic shortages of workers..... which is it?

Society would be able to pay for the 'benefits' of people who are out of work out of the bounty of improved productivity - so the economic theory goes.

Employing people for the sake of employing them is not good for society - it takes those people's time away from other pursuits and, if their job could be feasibly automated, is a net loss to the economy.

More jobs is not always the best option for society.

 

[yorksrob]

Employing people for the sake of employing them is not good for society - it takes those people's time away from other pursuits and, if their job could be feasibly automated, is a net loss to the economy.
More jobs is not always the best option for society.

Actually I think that's an unproven assertion frankly.

Every time the country has had large scale unemployment, the consequences for society have been far worse than the minor economic inefficiencies of slightly less automation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Actually I think that's an unproven assertion frankly.

Every time the country has had large scale unemployment, the consequences for society have been far worse than the minor economic inefficiencies of slightly less automation.

Only if you look at it in the very short term.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Employing people for the sake of employing them is not good for society - it takes those people's time away from other pursuits and, if their job could be feasibly automated, is a net loss to the economy.

I wonder how these unemployed people would pay their living costs whilst participating in "other pursuits"?

 

[radamfi]

For much of the 1970s/80s, Britain had mass unemployment. There is way more automation today, yet unemployment is low.

In the event of total automation, there would be little need for money. Robots don't need to be paid and if robots can do everything, including fix themselves, we don't need money to pay humans.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Forum members would do well to remember that employment boosts self esteem.

 

[dcsprior]

I wonder how these unemployed people would pay their living costs whilst participating in "other pursuits"?

I think a universal basic income warrants investigation. There would obviously be pitfalls, and I don't know enough to be able to say it they could be overcome relatively easily, but by putting some resources into investigating (and perhaps trialling) this, we can find out.

Back to the subject of this thread, as someone who voted remain, I do see the possibility of trying a universal basic income (which could prove expensive when you have freedom of movement) to be a silver lining of brexit.

Forum members would do well to remember that employment boosts self esteem.

But is this just because our society is built around work, so people see their own and others' worth in that context?

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

 

[radamfi]

Forum members would do well to remember that employment boosts self esteem.

What happens to the self-esteem of people who have retired early because they have saved a lot of money and deliberately reduce their expenditure so they can live a comfortable life on little money?

 

[northwichcat]

I wonder how these unemployed people would pay their living costs whilst participating in "other pursuits"?

While I'm not sure exactly what HSTEd was thinking of, maybe 'other pursuits' could be things which an employer would value like undertaking a free online course or things which the local community benefits from like being a first responder, coaching a youth sports team or cleaning up a local park. If more money was made available for community schemes maybe some of these volunteers could be paid for doing a valued role?

Also worth remembering some out-of-work benefits are only payable if you have paid sufficient NI contributions (provided certain conditions are met), so in some ways they are no different to a pensioner receiving a state pension or an ENCTS pass.

 

[northwichcat]

For much of the 1970s/80s, Britain had mass unemployment. There is way more automation today, yet unemployment is low.

In the 1970s/80s how many people who had jobs felt the hours they had were significantly less than the hours they wanted to work?

 

[HSTEd]

I wonder how these unemployed people would pay their living costs whilst participating in "other pursuits"?

That is a question of how you organise a society.
If the bounty of automation is fully realise the cost of living would fall to very low levels.

Forum members would do well to remember that employment boosts self esteem.

Does it always though?
I know many people who's job destroys their self esteem as they believe their job to be pointless and are crushed by being treated as a worthless drone that is merely an input to business, to be discarded the second they have outlived their immediate usefulness.

Treating people like cattle to be fed (and directed) to industrial processes is bad for self esteem.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Does it always though?
I know many people who's job destroys their self esteem as they believe their job to be pointless and are crushed by being treated as a worthless drone that is merely an input to business, to be discarded the second they
have outlived their immediate usefulness.

Treating people like cattle to be fed (and directed) to industrial processes is bad for self esteem.

In all of my 51 years I have never met anyone who wanted to be on the dole.

In my experience people who no longer enjoy their jobs don't tend to stay in them for much longer.

 

[HSTEd]

In all of my 51 years I have never met anyone who wanted to be on the dole.

That is because people on the dole are living in miserable penury.

It doesn't mean that being employed is always a positive influence on self esteem - it just means being less poor is.

In my experience people who no longer enjoy their jobs don't tend to stay in them for much longer.

I've met plenty, but they tend to live in areas where the alternative is no job at all, and the aforementioned miserable penury.

 

[RichmondCommu]

What happens to the self-esteem of people who have retired early because they have saved a lot of money and deliberately reduce their expenditure so they can live a comfortable life on little money?

In two years time at the age of 53 I will be one of those people. I will not consider myself to be unemployed and so will have no issues with self esteem. If I was to lose my job now I would look for another one to maintain my self worth.

 

[najaB]

Nursing jobs can be partially displaced by automation to reduce much of the non direct contact stuff that they currently have to do.

As you said "partially" - we have a rapidly ageing population and nursing and care roles can only be partially automated.