ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[sprinterguy]

Also, having looked through the kindly provided list above, it seems that the ScotRail fleet will be a mix from right across the GWR fleet - don't the Landore ones have a different, and inferior alternator or something? Is this not really as much of an issue as had been made out before, or is this equipment to be replaced on refurbishment?

Scotrail are, in fact, inheriting all of the GEC traction motor fitted power cars (43124 - 152) which, according to the 125 Group website and written sources, are considered "troublesome" compared to the Brush motors fitted to all other power cars (of which Scotrail will also be acquiring a scattered allocation), and is why they were all gathered at Landore.

 

[IanXC]

Scotrail are, in fact, inheriting all of the GEC traction motor fitted power cars (43124 - 152) which, according to the 125 Group website and written sources, are considered "troublesome" compared to the Brush motors fitted to all other power cars (of which Scotrail will also be acquiring a scattered allocation), and is why they were all gathered at Landore.

Ah thanks, Traction Motors - I knew there was something particular about the Landore fleet. Funny, when this first came up the numbers for ScotRail plus GWR short sets seemed to match pretty well with the rest of the fleet, leading to the idea they'd all stay in service other than the Landore fleet!

 

[IanXC]

AFAIK, there won't be any changes to the numbering on the power cars, however, that doesn't mean to say there won't be any additions or changes to the way they are identified ...

So we should look forward to a host of naming ceremonies then?

 

[Clansman]

So we should look forward to a host of naming ceremonies then?

Nothing set in stone as of yet, but the livery has been designed to cater for such features by having a large blue area behind the cab.

 

[Highland37]

What sort of condition are the GWR>Scotrail sets? There were many comments about Scotrail not looking after the units they sent south as they knew they were going.

 

[jingsmonty]

What sort of condition are the GWR>Scotrail sets? There were many comments about Scotrail not looking after the units they sent south as they knew they were going.

Hope they are in better condition than some of the current Scotrail DMUs - there has been a noticeable cutback in maintenance since Abellio took over, sime of the units are very tatty looking...

I do worry about the maintenance of our HSTs when they are in service with Scotrail - there's a bit more to them than a 158! Think the availability expexted is somethink like 89% (which I remember reading somewhere)? Think Scotrail may struggle to get that. I really don't fancy being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a failure!!

 

[Mag_seven]

Seems like only yesterday that the GWR sets were up in Kilmarnock being refurbished!

 

[47271]

I've been using GWR quite a bit more recently and I haven't been on an HST that hasn't been in very good internal condition.

Naff First Group upholstery in Standard Class and dismal seat layout and legroom obviously - it was only the other day that I realised that some of their HST trailers are totally airline style, a dystopian fluorescent strip lit scene as you look along the length of the carriage. Makes the inside of a Scotrail 170 quite an appealing sight.

On the subject of Scotrail 170s, I'm not sure that I agree that they're in worse order than under First. Some of the original interiors are incredibly threadbare now as they await refurbishment, but I blame the passage of time rather than Abellio for that.

 

[BRX]

a dystopian fluorescent strip lit scene as you look along the length of the carriage

Good description of a FGW HST.

Let's hope Scotrail can do a lot better

 

[najaB]

Some of the original interiors are incredibly threadbare now as they await refurbishment, but I blame the passage of time rather than Abellio for that.

Abellio probably don't see the sense in spending a lot of money to refurbish them into Saltire decor for them to go off-lease and have to be redecorated again a couple of years later.

 

[scotraildriver]

To be fair there are only 5 ""threadbare" units left (416-420) the rest of the fleet now having been refurbished. These will be the first to go to Northern. Even these have had new carpets and a tidy up recently.

 

[43096]

To be fair there are only 5 ""threadbare" units left (416-420) the rest of the fleet now having been refurbished. These will be the first to go to Northern. Even these have had new carpets and a tidy up recently.

AIUI these sets are not going to Northern as they are the 5 extra Eversholt units that should have gone to Southern with 421-424. The Northern units are all from the Porterbrook fleet AFAIAA.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Naff First Group upholstery in Standard Class and dismal seat layout and legroom obviously - it was only the other day that I realised that some of their HST trailers are totally airline style, a dystopian fluorescent strip lit scene as you look along the length of the carriage.

While I actually quite like the GWR interior (more facing seats would be nice though, I reckon half and half alternating per the old 158 layout) the lighting was an incredibly bad mistake. Coupled with the blue painted walls it makes the things look incredibly cold.

What is needed is white or off-white walls, feature (ideally wood) coach ends, and warm white LEDs with aisle spotlights.

 

[158722]

AIUI these sets are not going to Northern as they are the 5 extra Eversholt units that should have gone to Southern with 421-424. The Northern units are all from the Porterbrook fleet AFAIAA.

170453-461 and 472-478 are the units for Northern.

 

[47271]

Shame, I was looking forward to getting on a Northern 170 in ten years time and finding a 30 year old National Express Scotrail interior still soldiering on!

 

[jingsmonty]

While I actually quite like the GWR interior (more facing seats would be nice though, I reckon half and half alternating per the old 158 layout) the lighting was an incredibly bad mistake. Coupled with the blue painted walls it makes the things look incredibly cold.

What is needed is white or off-white walls, feature (ideally wood) coach ends, and warm white LEDs with aisle spotlights.

If there is the imagination (& the cash, of course...), there could be some nice things done with LED mood lighting...I'm not a fan of Pendolinos to travel in, but they do have some nice mood lighting

 

[route101]

Dont mind airline seating , much prefer it when travelling alone . I can see why groups prefer more tables .

 

[jingsmonty]

Dont mind airline seating , much prefer it when travelling alone . I can see why groups prefer more tables .

Totally agree - I am fairly tall & find that I prefer sitting in an airline seat (particularly if I'm on my own), as I don't spend the whole journey trying not to accidentaly kick the shins of whoever is sitting opposite me! I only really like a table if I'm travelling with a group, like yourself.
As for interiors - soft white LED with wood sounds a bit boring and old fashioned (the wood is just asking for some Ned to scratch their initials into!) - some coloured lighting (subtle, not meaning like an early '90s rave, hehe) & modern looking materials would be good.
Suspect it'll be done on the cheap...
Guess we will be able to see for sure in the not too distant future....

 

[Clansman]

As for interiors - soft white LED with wood sounds a bit boring and old fashioned (the wood is just asking for some Ned to scratch their initials into!) - some coloured lighting (subtle, not meaning like an early '90s rave, hehe) & modern looking materials would be good.
Suspect it'll be done on the cheap...
Guess we will be able to see for sure in the not too distant future....

The interiors are getting completely refurbished. The only thing being reused is the seats in both First and Standard Class. Everything such as the tables, flooring, standard class seat moquette will be brand new and carry its own HST scheme, away from the ScotRail Saltire brand we've become accustomed to up here. Brighter lights to be put in also, so it definitely won't be a refurbishment done on the cheapest anyway.

 

[BRX]

some coloured lighting

No no no!

All that's needed is white light with a warm colour temperature.

Warm white LEDs are only slightly more expensive than cold white now. In the overall scheme of things I don't think there'd be a cost implication.

It just needs someone who knows a little bit about lighting and for the lighting to be tested with the final fit-out colours/materials before the exact colour temp is decided.

How FGW managed to get it so, so wrong with their HST refurbs I don't know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The interiors are getting completely refurbished. The only thing being reused is the seats in both First and Standard Class. Everything such as the tables, flooring, standard class seat moquette will be brand new and carry its own HST scheme, away from the ScotRail Saltire brand we've become accustomed to up here. Brighter lights to be put in also, so it definitely won't be a refurbishment done on the cheapest anyway.

Brighter lights?

If there is one thing GWR HSTs do not need it is that. They are too bright already. Utterly nasty.

FWIW I don't mind the Voyager purple. But to me the key is (a) not daylight white (cool white is OK, warm white nicer), (b) not too bright.

 

[Marklund]

170453-461 and 472-478 are the units for Northern.

Interesting. Are ScotRail keeping all the others now?

If so, will the first class sections be removed from the returning units, to be fitted to the staying standard class only ones, or will first be removed from all to become standard only?

Seems a bit odd to keep two units with a different seat layout.

 

[jingsmonty]

No no no!

All that's needed is white light with a warm colour temperature.

Warm white LEDs are only slightly more expensive than cold white now. In the overall scheme of things I don't think there'd be a cost implication.

It just needs someone who knows a little bit about lighting and for the lighting to be tested with the final fit-out colours/materials before the exact colour temp is decided.

How FGW managed to get it so, so wrong with their HST refurbs I don't know.

I like idea of warm white LED lighting, rather than cold (stadium floodlight level, hehe) white - definetly think some cool blue mood lighting (or some other colour - the off-purple Virgin mood lighting is appealing), would fit in with the 'Scotrail' theme.
Something 'modern' (ironic, considering the age of the rolling stock...) is what's needed here.

 

[jingsmonty]

The interiors are getting completely refurbished. The only thing being reused is the seats in both First and Standard Class. Everything such as the tables, flooring, standard class seat moquette will be brand new and carry its own HST scheme, away from the ScotRail Saltire brand we've become accustomed to up here. Brighter lights to be put in also, so it definitely won't be a refurbishment done on the cheapest anyway.

If is isn't a refurbishment done on the cheap, the seats would be getting changed...(standard class ones anyway)...Grammer seats aren't exactly what I would call luxurious (apologies for grinding my 'Grammer' axe again...!).

In fairness though, the GW 1st class seats do look excellent...

 

[D2007wsm]

The seats on the GWR seats may be high but they are comfy, have plenty of leg room and space. They are a vast improvement on what they replaced and what is on some other stock in GWR land. I am on a GWR HST now and apart from the vestibule being a tad tatty and the air con not being the coolest it still looks smart and tidy. FGW did a good job with the last refurb better than the old cream window surrounds, grey marble bulk heads and green seats which really dis look dated. I'm sure with a repaint, new carpets and reupholstered seats Scotrail can do just as good a job.

Everyone has there own preference, but at least the HSTs offer more passengers a chance of getting a seat. I would much rather have this than one of the tatty DMUs which are always full and the interior has aged worse. I would quite happily continue on these and luckily my local route should be getting Turbos in the near future and then the HST GTIs which is a lot better than the horrible 150/1s it is a lot of the time.

 

[route101]

Off topic slightly but when was the last non refurb GWR HST in service ?
Looking forward to the Scotrail HSTs but cant help feeling they will need lengthen them again if only 4 or 5 coaches , then again they might not make it that far ..

 

[Clansman]

If is isn't a refurbishment done on the cheap, the seats would be getting changed...(standard class ones anyway)...Grammer seats aren't exactly what I would call luxurious (apologies for grinding my 'Grammer' axe again...!).

In fairness though, the GW 1st class seats do look excellent...

So forget the power doors, forget the new buffets, forget the 2020 mods, forget the new PIS, forget the improved seating layout, forget the deep clean inside and out, forget the new interior, the ScotRail HSTs will still retain the Grammer seats, thus the refurbishment has been done on the cheap?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If is isn't a refurbishment done on the cheap, the seats would be getting changed...(standard class ones anyway)...Grammer seats aren't exactly what I would call luxurious

The trouble is that some of us really, really like them!

 

[47271]

I'm fine with Grammer seats, so long as there's enough leg room and table space. The problem with both Scotrail 158s and GWR HSTs (the main long distance applications of them) is that they've crammed far too many seats into the space available and, on GWR, too many airline seats.

The upright backs make this look worse, but I'm fine with sitting up straight, it's where I put my legs, or my laptop, that's the problem.

The Scotrail refurb will reduce the airline seat infestation that these trains have at the moment. My only concern is that the table layout will end up as cramped as we have on the 158s at the moment. Give me Scotrail 170 table spacing of Grammers and I'll be happy.

 

[jingsmonty]

The trouble is that some of us really, really like them!

I've never actually met anybody that likes them! If they were pitched better, they would be ok (like a Scotrail 170 seat) - it's like being forced to sit in the crash position on a plank of wood...