Phone Networks, PAC Codes and so on

[DynamicSpirit]

So... needing to replace my very old knackered phone, I wandered into an EE shop (I'm an EE customer) to discuss upgrades. Hit on a Samsung A3, with a contract giving 1GB data for £22.99 a month.

But being the careful type, I decided to look around before accepting, and very quickly discovered Carphone Warehouse offering basically the same deal - still on EE - for just £17.99. Phoned them up, and they then said this deal was only available to new EE customers, not existing customers. They could therefore do it, but I'd need to arrange it as a new contract with EE. And once I had the phone I should contact EE to cancel my existing contract, and get a PAC code to transfer my number to the new contract. I accepted.

Still being the careful type, I phoned EE immediately without waiting for the phone - to be informed I couldn't possibly do what Carphone Warehouse had advised: PAC codes can only be used to transfer numbers to different networks, not to new contracts with the same network.

In response, I immediately cancelled my Carphone Warehouse order, and am still trying to figure out how I can get the £17.99 deal on the phone.

So who's right? Were Carphone Warehouse lying to me, or were EE just being awkward? Is it not somewhat unethical if mobile phone operators make deals publically available but then exclude existing customers from them? Does it mean that in order to get good phone deals you just have to swap networks every couple of years so you count as a new customer?

 

[TheEdge]

Firstly, the new customer only deals are not new and not the sole preserve of the phone networks.

I think EE are right, I've only ever used a PAC code when moving network (that was from EE to O2 so EE have no issue giving them out correctly), never needed one when changing contracts with the same network.

 

[Lrd]

Look at iD mobile or Giffgaff for cheap phone contracts

 

[PermitToTravel]

You'll need to port the number to a free PAYG SIM, and then from that back into EE (unless you find a better deal with a different network)

You could try calling up to cancel, and haggling with retentions - they should be able to at least match a new customer offer

 

[gazthomas]

Have you considered buying the phone rather than getting it bundled in the monthly charge?

Over 2 years you would be paying £431.76 with Carphone Warehouse, whereas you could buy the phone for £145 (typical eBay price for a new and unlocked Samsung A3 phone - refurbished can be less than £100) and then say buy a GiffGaff plan at between £8-£12/month. You would save a little money this way.

 

[DarloRich]

I buy unlocked phones off a bloke in the pub and just use the same pay and go SIM I have had for years.

£10 unlimited texts and totally unlimited data plus £10 calls.

( NO T mobile/EE i am NOT going to give it up in exchange for an Iphone 45 and a £20 per month contract. )

 

[cactustwirly]

I buy unlocked phones off a bloke in the pub

So you're a secret drug dealer....

I buy my phones outright and unlocked, and I use a 3 PAYG SIM.

 

[Crossover]

I'm sure it is possible, as sometimes when staff leave the company I work at, they keep the number. To do this, I am told the staff member should sort their own contract and then request the PAC to port the number. However, how easy it is in reality I don't know, as I try to avoid being involved!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Have you considered buying the phone rather than getting it bundled in the monthly charge?

Over 2 years you would be paying £431.76 with Carphone Warehouse, whereas you could buy the phone for £145 (typical eBay price for a new and unlocked Samsung A3 phone - refurbished can be less than £100) and then say buy a GiffGaff plan at between £8-£12/month. You would save a little money this way.

Looking into it, buying a phone upfront doesn't seem a bad idea. I've never done that in the past because I always figured that to get enough monthly allowance I'd have to pay so much in network subscription that I may as well get a phone with the contract anyway, but looking at GiffGaff, it seems that's no longer the case - they certainly do some good deals with 1GB+ data. And I like that they don't tie you into 2-year contracts.

I don't think I can match your figures for buying the phone - looking on both Ebay and Amazon seems to show around £230 new, or bit under £200 refurbished for an A3. But even so, with an £8-£10/month GiffGaff contract, that works out no more expensive over 2 years than getting the phone with the contract.

I buy unlocked phones off a bloke in the pub and just use the same pay and go SIM I have had for years.

£10 unlimited texts and totally unlimited data plus £10 calls.

( NO T mobile/EE i am NOT going to give it up in exchange for an Iphone 45 and a £20 per month contract. )

Doesn't the £10+£10 mean you're paying £20/month anyway?

 

[DarloRich]

Doesn't the £10+£10 mean you're paying £20/month anyway?

Nope - £10 gets me unlimited data and texts and £10 of call value. I rarely make calls so always have credit

So you're a secret drug dealer....
.

if i were a secret drug dealer i would have one of my mules buy and use the phone. No link to me

 

[BlueFox]

Look at iD mobile or Giffgaff for cheap phone contracts

Giffgaff aren't as good as they used to be.

ID mobile has a 1 month contract for £5, with 1.5GB data, 500 minutes and 5,000 texts.
Buy the phone separately - there are lots of good phones available for around £150 these days.

Far cheaper than buying a phone via one of the big networks.

ID mobile use Three's network, so best to check their coverage first - but as it's only a one month contract it's not much of a risk.


If you get broadband through BT, Sky or Plusnet it's worth looking at their mobile phone service, as you get a discount.

 

[northwichcat]

Having tried to transfer numbers before I'm not sure it's less stressful then giving everyone your new phone number.

The first time I did it, it didn't happen the first day they told me it would happen or the second, then happened at about 6pm on the third. They also gave me conflicting advice about whether the phone should be turned off or kept on while the process was being completed.

The second time I did it, it looked like it was going well. At around 7am I got a text saying my number would be transferred today and soon afterwards I could call my second mobile and the transferred number was displayed. However, the Internet was working and this didn't get sorted out later. A patronising customer services person made me go through my phone settings as he was insistent it couldn't possibly be anything to do with the number transfer and after he realised all the settings were correct he claimed it was a problem with the sim and I would have to get a new one (it had only just been issued.) When they eventually sorted out the Internet issue they managed to block incoming calls!

 

[northwichcat]

Look at iD mobile or Giffgaff for cheap phone contracts

It's worth remembering if you want to tether/use your phone as a hotspot that piggy back networks often don't allow it or have limitations as to how much data you can use that way.

 

[northwichcat]

I buy unlocked phones off a bloke in the pub

That's just what DCI Adams wanted you to say.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's worth remembering if you want to tether/use your phone as a hotspot that piggy back networks often don't allow it or have limitations as to how much data you can use that way.

After doing a bit of research, it seems that GiffGaff do allow tethering but iD don't:

Is tethering allowed?
Tethering is allowed on all our goodybags, gigabags and airtime credit (PAYG).

Tethering price information

Please note that we do not allow tethering on any of our current plans. If you do use this service it is likely to use up large amounts of your data allowance very quickly, and you will be liable to pay any charge that may occur if you go over your allowance. Please check for updates on our website as this may change in the future.

That's probably a deal-breaker for me because I find tethering incredibly useful occasionally - if I want to use my laptop in a place that doesn't have WiFi. Might not be so important for other people though.

My reading of the iD statement is that they won't actually block tethering, but will be very unsympathetic if you go over your allowance because of tethering. I'm guessing that there's actually no reliable way to detect if your phone is tethering the data it's downloading, and that in practice it's therefore very hard for networks to stop you doing it.

 

[northwichcat]

Three mobile bills do show how much of your allowance has been used as a hotspot.

 

[gazthomas]

Looking into it, buying a phone upfront doesn't seem a bad idea. I've never done that in the past because I always figured that to get enough monthly allowance I'd have to pay so much in network subscription that I may as well get a phone with the contract anyway, but looking at GiffGaff, it seems that's no longer the case - they certainly do some good deals with 1GB+ data. And I like that they don't tie you into 2-year contracts.

I don't think I can match your figures for buying the phone - looking on both Ebay and Amazon seems to show around £230 new, or bit under £200 refurbished for an A3. But even so, with an £8-£10/month GiffGaff contract, that works out no more expensive over 2 years than getting the phone with the contract.

Doesn't the £10+£10 mean you're paying £20/month anyway?

Here are the links

High quality refurbished unit - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-G...05&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

New in UK and unlocked - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAMSUNG-G...505548&hash=item2a836bd37c:g:gP8AAOSwH09ZKGrW

 

[gazthomas]

After doing a bit of research, it seems that GiffGaff do allow tethering but iD don't:





That's probably a deal-breaker for me because I find tethering incredibly useful occasionally - if I want to use my laptop in a place that doesn't have WiFi. Might not be so important for other people though.

My reading of the iD statement is that they won't actually block tethering, but will be very unsympathetic if you go over your allowance because of tethering. I'm guessing that there's actually no reliable way to detect if your phone is tethering the data it's downloading, and that in practice it's therefore very hard for networks to stop you doing it.

Most phones can tell you how much data it has used.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Looking into it, buying a phone upfront doesn't seem a bad idea. I've never done that in the past because I always figured that to get enough monthly allowance I'd have to pay so much in network subscription that I may as well get a phone with the contract anyway, but looking at GiffGaff, it seems that's no longer the case - they certainly do some good deals with 1GB+ data. And I like that they don't tie you into 2-year contracts.

There are some incredible SIM only contracts around if you don't mind redemption cashback deals - one place I always look is https://www.mobiles.co.uk/sim-only-deals

You need to sign up to a contract that might have a high monthly cost, but by uploading your bills claim significant amounts of cashback. It's not for the disorganised: if you don't send them any bill within the 60 day window, you'll lose your entitlement to any further cashback - they make their money from people forgetting.

If you can trust yourself to do it right, you can get access to some brilliant deals. I'm currently paying the equivalent of £10.50 per month (£22.20/month minus a total of £140.40 cashback throughout the 12 month term) for 20GB and unlimited texts and minutes. You can pick an operator who allow tethering, such as Vodafone

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Here are the links

High quality refurbished unit - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-G...05&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

New in UK and unlocked - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAMSUNG-G...505548&hash=item2a836bd37c:g:gP8AAOSwH09ZKGrW

Ah thanks. I understand the difference now. Very confusingly, there is a Galaxy A3 2016 and a Galaxy A3 2017. From what I've read, they aren't really the same phone: Differences include that the 2017 one is water resistant, has a faster processor, more memory, and a somewhat improved case design. Needless to say, the 2017 version is the one that almost any contract will give you, and which is selling on Amazon for around £230.

Those links are selling the older phone, which lacks the improvements - which is why it's so much cheaper.

And I guess all that just goes to show how complicated getting a mobile phone is! *sigh*.

 

[gazthomas]

Ah thanks. I understand the difference now. Very confusingly, there is a Galaxy A3 2016 and a Galaxy A3 2017. From what I've read, they aren't really the same phone: Differences include that the 2017 one is water resistant, has a faster processor, more memory, and a somewhat improved case design. Needless to say, the 2017 version is the one that almost any contract will give you, and which is selling on Amazon for around £230.

Those links are selling the older phone, which lacks the improvements - which is why it's so much cheaper.

And I guess all that just goes to show how complicated getting a mobile phone is! *sigh*.

That makes sense, thanks!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

If only CDMA technology was available in the UK as well as GSM. This would save a lot of faffing about with PAC Codes and sim cards...

 

[najaB]

This would save a lot of faffing about with PAC Codes and sim cards.

Only because CDMA phones are largely locked to a single network.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Only because CDMA phones are largely locked to a single network.

The upshot is that they can be unlocked by the original network and you can go wherever...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Once you convince the original network to and pay them whatever bribe they'd like for the privilege. No thanks. It's my phone and I'll keep control of it cheers

 

[najaB]

The upshot is that they can be unlocked by the original network and you can go wherever...

They rarely if ever do so, and even when they can be convinced to do so you normally can't take your number with you.

A GSM phone, provided it isn't subsidised by the network, can be switched between networks and back in minutes by simply changing the SIM card.

 

[dgl]

I always buy mobile phones PAYG from Carphone Warehouse, you may need to put £10 top up on but as all their phones are unlocked (well mobile network branded stuff might not be) it can be a great deal, even if you don't use the £10.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

 

[cjmillsnun]

If only CDMA technology was available in the UK as well as GSM. This would save a lot of faffing about with PAC Codes and sim cards...

CDMA is outdated, as is UMTS. Everyone is using LTE as 4G and that uses SIM cards.

 

[radamfi]

Getting a dual SIM phones means you can take advantage of the best deals for calls and data independently. Alternatively you can use a 4G mobile Wi-Fi device. If you rarely call or call using WhatsApp then you don't need a contract for calls and therefore get the cheapest PAYG deal for calls and get the best data SIM for your data. If you really want to save money then you can get multiple Data Reward SIMs from Three and pay nothing for your data.

 

[jon0844]

Embedded SIMs are something Apple is pushing for, and others will then follow. This will mean a network, or even manufacturer, being able to hold you to ransom and I'm not much looking forward to it.

We'll be told that getting rid of the SIM allows smaller phones, and everyone will cheer if Apple does it first.

And I really wouldn't recommend giffgaff. It might be owned by Telefónica, but it is at a very low priority compared to O2 and other MVNOs (like Tesco) and has very little spectrum so will never be able to offer great speeds or have the capacity of EE or Vodafone.