New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[Carlisle]

I'd put money on what they really want is the non-commercial guards (on the "metro" services) to become commercial guards (or similar) as on the longer distance servers. That probably works best with DOO, but maybe DOGC can be made to work.

Commercial guards operating DOGC would be largely pointless on the frequently stopping metro services. They'd have very little time between stations for any meaningful commercial duties. .Either keep the existing system or go DCO

 

[Bletchleyite]

Commercial guards operating DOGC would be largely pointless on the frequently stopping metro services. They'd have very little time between stations for any meaningful commercial duties. .Either keep the existing system or go DCO

They manage it up north. But I can see that the driver doing the doors, but the guard mandatory and safety trained, might be a good variant. The driver could call on the guard for assistance with dispatch if he had trouble seeing, for example.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You have to remember that the previous post was made by a DOO lover and I'm alright jack. Nuff said.

 

[Carlisle]

You have to remember that the previous post was made by a DOO lover and I'm alright jack. Nuff said.

Not necessarily, I'm pretty sure BR looked seriously at having commercial guards operate on the 455s fairly soon after their introduction on the South West division but decided it wasn't really viable due to the number of stops etc, happy to be corrected if that wasn't the case .

 

[Matt Taylor]

In the 2003-2004 timetable the off peak fast services were timed for 90 minutes:


XX08 Waterloo d

XX32 Woking a
XX33 Woking d

XX41 Guildford a
XX42 Guildford d

XX55 Haslemere a
XX56 Haslemere d

XX07 Petersfield d

XX20 Havant a

XX29 Fratton a

XX33 Southsea a

XX38 Harbour a


Most of the time is made up between Guildford and Haslemere, Havant Junction and between Fratton and Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Not necessarily, I'm pretty sure BR looked seriously at having commercial guards operate on the 455s fairly soon after their introduction on the South West division but decided it wasn't really viable due to the number of stops etc, happy to be corrected if that wasn't the case .

Sorry if I got things wrong but you come across as a strong advocate of DOO and working a train on that principal is morally and fundamentally wrong, we've just been lucky so far that there's not been a major incident where the driver has been incapacitated and the punters are left to fend for themselves and "Jump ship".

DOO is just a cost cutting exercise and one that compromises safety, it has been proven in the past that the passengers on SWT prefer to have a guard on board the train and that's where it ends.

The notion of DOO on SWD metals was killed off by drivers threatening strike action if it were implemented and it was withdrawn, unlike those money grabbers on the SCD who sold the guards down the river for a few quid and IIRC it was £9.20 per day. So SWD stayed with guards and has been better for it.

I won't travel on SN unless absolutely necessary, it's the only way I can show my displeasure over the DOO debacle and its forced implementation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Aren't the 458s different and work on a car-by-car basis, rather than through the TMS as on Desiros? So each 458 car reads the ASDO beacon individually and enables door release once it has passed the beacon - which protects against stopping short.

Yes you remember correctly. This has definitely been confirmed in previous SWT ASDO threads on here, but it was also in the 'railway engineer' article that described how it worked differently in the Desiros and 458s.

 

[bramling]

They manage it up north. But I can see that the driver doing the doors, but the guard mandatory and safety trained, might be a good variant. The driver could call on the guard for assistance with dispatch if he had trouble seeing, for example.

I don't think it's a reasonable comparison with up north.

For a start, up north it's probably a 2 or 3 car train, plus not forgetting that on Northern at least there is a policy that on non-gangwayed trains the guard should be positioned in the rear unit. I've certainly never had a ticket inspection by a guard when in a class 150/1 or 142 on the front of a multi-unit train. Secondly it's very common outside London to find there can be a substantial delay before the doors are released whilst the guard returns to their position - this certainly wouldn't be tolerable on something like the Waterloo suburban routes.

I'd also suggest that, on balance, commercial guards would be likely to experience more trouble in London than elsewhere. Away from London the dominant theme is probably "try and hide when the guard comes round", with "if the guard tries to make me pay I'll stab him" being very much the exception. Sadly, in London it's probably the other way round.

 

[infobleep]

You won't get Wimbledon, Clapham or Vauxhall on the UMF or DMF, they're way too busy to make those calls, they tried it out using 1Txx services years ago and it just screws up the service with traffic being backed up for a significant number of signal sections.

Surbiton has capacity issues with the Portsmouth line trains overtaking either Basingstoke or Altons in that immediate area.or platforms.

Worplesdon is unlikely too as it's virtually unused during the day. Godalming has the 2Pxx service just in front of the 1Pxx, so not really sure how much that would benefit anything or anyone.

What they should be looking at is reducing journey times in the A3 corridor between Guildford and Portsmouth because you can do the journey quicker by car or coach than train.

If I go to the coast I drive it's far quicker than the train and more convenient and comfortable too.

How do they managed to call at Wimbledon during the tennis? Does that lead to traffic backing up?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Oh yes, two or three back and if any problems occur on one it rapidly gets worse.

 

[swt_passenger]

AIUI the additional calls at Wimbledon during the tennis fortnight still have to be put in the track accesss agreement for the relevant services.

So the mention in lists of calling patterns (e.g. post #2223 above) may mean nothing at all changes in the normal day to day service.

 

[LowLevel]

I don't think it's a reasonable comparison with up north.

For a start, up north it's probably a 2 or 3 car train, plus not forgetting that on Northern at least there is a policy that on non-gangwayed trains the guard should be positioned in the rear unit. I've certainly never had a ticket inspection by a guard when in a class 150/1 or 142 on the front of a multi-unit train. Secondly it's very common outside London to find there can be a substantial delay before the doors are released whilst the guard returns to their position - this certainly wouldn't be tolerable on something like the Waterloo suburban routes.

I'd also suggest that, on balance, commercial guards would be likely to experience more trouble in London than elsewhere. Away from London the dominant theme is probably "try and hide when the guard comes round", with "if the guard tries to make me pay I'll stab him" being very much the exception. Sadly, in London it's probably the other way round.

It does happen but I don't think railway revenue protection staff get stabbed particularly often. Try somewhere like Warrington in the North West and you will find some very nasty individuals with much thinner coverage of law enforcement than in London. I don't think your statement is accurate!

 

[bramling]

It does happen but I don't think railway revenue protection staff get stabbed particularly often. Try somewhere like Warrington in the North West and you will find some very nasty individuals with much thinner coverage of law enforcement than in London. I don't think your statement is accurate!

There's very little on-train revenue enforcement in the London suburban area. The preferred method is to focus on having large revenue blocks at stations, often supported by BTP. Most of the suburban routes are either DOO or non-commercial guards. On-train inspections on LU are non-existent, and I don't think DLR do it now either - except by revenue.

I don't doubt there are some bad people in the places you mention, and I wouldn't fancy doing revenue on something like the Glossop line (Hattersley springs to mind!). I do take the point about availability of law enforcement resources though.

 

[londonbridge]

Don't really want to start a separate thread, I'm going Croydon-Eastleigh Thursday using the Brighton-Southampton Central via Clapham Junction tkt and starting/finishing short. Coming back Sunday, first day of the new franchise, I assume the return leg won't be affected by the franchise change?

 

[pompeyfan]

So the new franchise kicks off a week today, what do we know now that we didn't when the announcement was made;

Weymouth WILL lose one of its services to London
The company WILL be know as South Western Railway
Personally I believe that there may be changes to non commercial guard grade and role.

Anyone got anything else?

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't really want to start a separate thread, I'm going Croydon-Eastleigh Thursday using the Brighton-Southampton Central via Clapham Junction tkt and starting/finishing short. Coming back Sunday, first day of the new franchise, I assume the return leg won't be affected by the franchise change?

No reason for it being affected whatsoever. Current timetable runs until Dec 2017, if not Dec 2018. (Engineering works notwithstanding.)

 

[vikingdriver]

No reason for it being affected whatsoever. Current timetable runs until Dec 2017, if not Dec 2018. (Engineering works notwithstanding.)

Don't think there is a free day working agreement for drivers, unless it's been agreed since I was last at work...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Don't think there is a free day working agreement for drivers, unless it's been agreed since I was last at work...

Still nothing. Things could be a little tricky on the 20th and beyond at this rate.

And I don't think what was said the other day about train operation is likely to inspire one to be forthcoming either. Still you never know.

OK he was a bit non committal about it, but afaic he's let the proverbial "cat out of the bag". So we'll see where we go from here.

 

[Matt Taylor]

So the new franchise kicks off a week today, what do we know now that we didn't when the announcement was made;

Weymouth WILL lose one of its services to London
The company WILL be know as South Western Railway
There WILL be changes to non commercial guard grade and role.

Anyone got anything else?

There have not been any comments from SWR about non commercial guards that I have heard, nor can anything be assumed from any other comments. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I know that all the guards on the "red" routes are likely non commercial, are all the guards on "blue" and "white" routes currently commercial?

 

[TEW]

I know that all the guards on the "red" routes are likely non commercial, are all the guards on "blue" and "white" routes currently commercial?

Imagine a boundary that split the network in two, running between Bedhampton/Hilsea, Basingstoke and Reading. Anything to the East or London side of that line, you could have either a commercial or non-commercial guard. Anything West or Country side, you will only have a commercial guard. The Isle of Wight is commercial guards too but doesn't fit with that imaginary line.

I've drawn it on the SWT Network Map, everything to the right of the red line, either type of guard; everything to the left, commercial only.

 

[pompeyfan]

There have not been any comments from SWR about non commercial guards that I have heard, nor can anything be assumed from any other comments. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself.

Funny you should say that because the comments from Andy Mellors can only be taken to mean one thing in my humble opinion, as you say though, it's not a spelt out fact, so I'll edit the original post.

 

[wibble]

Don't really want to start a separate thread, I'm going Croydon-Eastleigh Thursday using the Brighton-Southampton Central via Clapham Junction tkt and starting/finishing short. Coming back Sunday, first day of the new franchise, I assume the return leg won't be affected by the franchise change?

Your ticket will be valid as normal - the franchise change doesn't affect customers. (although stuff might change a few months down the line)

 

[Fiyero]

Have we had clarification about Gold Card free weekend tickets after Saturday? I have 3 left to use!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there an expiry date on them? I have a LM complimentary day pass which is conveniently dated for the end of the (original) franchise.

 

[infobleep]

Is there an expiry date on them? I have a LM complimentary day pass which is conveniently dated for the end of the (original) franchise.

No. They are valid for as long as you hold a gold card. Well that's under South West Trains. I imagine gold card holders wouldn't be to happy if they decide not to accept them having given the impress the would.

 

[Fiyero]

Is there an expiry date on them? I have a LM complimentary day pass which is conveniently dated for the end of the (original) franchise.

No. They are valid for as long as you hold a gold card. Well that's under South West Trains. I imagine gold card holders wouldn't be to happy if they decide not to accept them having given the impress the would.

I am sure the vast majority of people won't even know that it changes Sunday. I'd just be reassured if there was some kind of news!

 

[3141]

I am sure the vast majority of people won't even know that it changes Sunday. I'd just be reassured if there was some kind of news!

If I were First/MTR, I'd be quite happy for people to go on thinking that Stagecoach were running the Waterloo blockade and responsible for any problems that passengers experience. Especially if during the next two weeks it begins to emerge that not everything will be completed on time. I wouldn't want badly-informed passengers associating the First/MTR takeover with anything that might go wrong.

 

[adamello]

New Updates.

http://firstmtrswstaff.com/index.php/faq/

Have a look below for some questions to get you ready for the 20th August. This section will continue to be updated over the next few days and into the franchise.

F/MTR will be updating this page this week as Sunday approaches. Good news for the brand fans.. You should be able to see something from Sunday

Leaflets/Information/Posters/Timetables
Marketing material, posters, timetables that include the wording Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd should be removed on the 19 August. New posters and leaflets will be delivered on the 18th and 19th August with instructions.

Although saying that, I'm not sure any of the existing material will have the wording "Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd"

 

[nlogax]

It's definitely a tad surreal to see SWT carrying travel info for the week beyond their franchise end, but considering the situation it's hardly surprising. During the ongoing works I'd imagine consistent communication to passengers using Waterloo is the most important factor beyond anything else.