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Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

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swt_passenger

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Meanwhile, from August's magazine:

First/MTR told Modern Railways: "The schedule for the rollout of the Class 707 units will be as per the existing SWT programme."
 
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spark001uk

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...I imagine Siemens' field engineer resources are focused on the getting the 700s into service and keeping them going. So perhaps the 707s are relatively neglected ?.

Surely anything short of impartial focus on all their customers' orders would be poor management wouldn't it?
 

Monty

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Rash guess but maybe Siemens or the ROSCO want a second opinion on the 707s from someone other than SWT. They are the Pantograph fitted ones but perhaps some testing on a line with newer third rail (out of New Cross depot onto the ELL) was thought representative.

Second opinion on what? Both the 700s and 707s are plagued with issues and Siemens know it. They don't need a second opinion from the TOC especially when it's Siemens and the Rosco doing most of the testing.
 

Peter Sarf

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Second opinion on what? Both the 700s and 707s are plagued with issues and Siemens know it. They don't need a second opinion from the TOC especially when it's Siemens and the Rosco doing most of the testing.

Still leaves me wondering why the 700s are getting accepted into service but the 707s are not. Even if the 707s are newer than 700s they are still very similar. The 345s which are the first of a new design have beaten the 707s into service !.
 
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spark001uk

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5Q80 to Bournemouth is on the move today. 5Q81 return.

707003/005
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Despite the disruption yesterday due to the morning's signal failure between Waterloo and Clapham Junction, there were at least two pairs of 707s out on test.

707 008 + 707 009 thundered through Raynes Park on the down fast at around 10.15 and 707 003 + 707 005 were heading in the up direction through Motspur Park shortly after 18.00.
 
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They seem to have restored 1st class to the 458s with the introduction of antimacassars to the seats and 1st class signage on the windows and the glass panels by the doors, however they have not added doors at this stage. Could be getting ready to transfer these units to the Reading line when the 707s start running?
 

Feathers44

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They seem to have restored 1st class to the 458s with the introduction of antimacassars to the seats and 1st class signage on the windows and the glass panels by the doors, however they have not added doors at this stage. Could be getting ready to transfer these units to the Reading line when the 707s start running?

From other threads here, they're running some services on the Reading line for the duration of the Waterloo works.
 

Goldfish62

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They seem to have restored 1st class to the 458s with the introduction of antimacassars to the seats and 1st class signage on the windows and the glass panels by the doors, however they have not added doors at this stage. Could be getting ready to transfer these units to the Reading line when the 707s start running?

They also now have Reading line calling patterns added to the PIS. Most dont appear to have the 1st Class restore yet.
 
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They also now have Reading line calling patterns added to the PIS. Most dont appear to have the 1st Class restore yet.

In all ll the ones I saw over the weekend the ex SWT 458s had been converted but the units that were ex Gatwick Express had not been. This may be because the ex SWT stock have real 1st class seats whereas the seats in the ex Gatwick stock are all the same standard class?
 

spark001uk

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In all ll the ones I saw over the weekend the ex SWT 458s had been converted but the units that were ex Gatwick Express had not been. This may be because the ex SWT stock have real 1st class seats whereas the seats in the ex Gatwick stock are all the same standard class?

The ones I had today had antimacassars and 1st signage, but no sign of the saloon doors, or the overhead panels with the reading lights in.
As for the issue with 531-536, I'm guessing they just won't put those on the Readings for now, as those ends appear to have always been standard class (the 460s had their first class somewhere else in the train I believe??).

However - what is puzzling, is that this pic on Wikipedia of an "original 458" seems to show first class at a driving end, but the seats and tables are the same as in 531-536.
.
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Any updates on their progress in clocking up fault free running? Does it get reset to 0 everytime one of them has software issues?
 

AM9

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Any updates on their progress in clocking up fault free running? Does it get reset to 0 everytime one of them has software issues?

Standard reliability engineering practice is that when failures are officially attributed to a specific software issue, they are then classified as defects. A subsequent release of software that addresses those defects effectively removes the entries from the active list in the failure catalogue. Test running with new software may be needed to confirm that the defects have been removed, the failure modes as would not then be relevant.
 

racklam

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However - what is puzzling, is that this pic on Wikipedia of an "original 458" seems to show first class at a driving end, but the seats and tables are the same as in 531-536.

I think that was the original SWT first class in those units, before being refurbished to what is currently in 501-530. Don't know when that refurbishment took place though.
 

Mordac

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The ones I had today had antimacassars and 1st signage, but no sign of the saloon doors, or the overhead panels with the reading lights in.
As for the issue with 531-536, I'm guessing they just won't put those on the Readings for now, as those ends appear to have always been standard class (the 460s had their first class somewhere else in the train I believe??).

However - what is puzzling, is that this pic on Wikipedia of an "original 458" seems to show first class at a driving end, but the seats and tables are the same as in 531-536.
.

I think I'd be willing to pay extra not to have to travel with that vomit coloured wallpaper. :lol:
 

GW43125

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I can confirm a pair of 707s were out testing today. Odd as I thought they'd stopped them for the blockade.
 

swt_passenger

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I can confirm a pair of 707s were out testing today. Odd as I thought they'd stopped them for the blockade.

They definitely haven't stopped for the blockade, there were even a couple (or more) out last Saturday. There are reports elsewhere of them getting to Dorking and Farnham that day.

Also a couple seen on the Reading line on Monday...
 

Bigfoot

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I can confirm a pair of 707s were out testing today. Odd as I thought they'd stopped them for the blockade.

Their possible introduction has been out off until after the blockade. Not their testing. Too expensive to have just sitting about when there are paths still available away from the Waterloo throat.
 

GW43125

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Their possible introduction has been out off until after the blockade. Not their testing. Too expensive to have just sitting about when there are paths still available away from the Waterloo throat.

Ah fair enough-though they passed me at Queenstown Road on the up so I'm struggling to work out where they could go other than Waterloo!
 

43096

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The ones I had today had antimacassars and 1st signage, but no sign of the saloon doors, or the overhead panels with the reading lights in.
As for the issue with 531-536, I'm guessing they just won't put those on the Readings for now, as those ends appear to have always been standard class (the 460s had their first class somewhere else in the train I believe??).

I doubt they will get saloon doors, partly because they are through gangwayed now and because they are not staying long term, so First won't be spending much on them.

As for 531-536, you guess wrong! 1720 Waterloo - Reading is 458511/535 today.
 

spark001uk

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I doubt they will get saloon doors, partly because they are through gangwayed now and because they are not staying long term, so First won't be spending much on them.

As for 531-536, you guess wrong! 1720 Waterloo - Reading is 458511/535 today.

Through gangwayed is a bit of a laugh, I don't know if the unit-to-unit gangway is still open, but just lately the guards tend to lock the two carriage doors so nobody can get through. (although I do wonder if that access was just for the benefit of Chertsey before it was extended, being the only station the units served that was 4car max)

Re the 531-536 usage, I was more referring to the use of 1 or 2 of them together, thereby not providing any 1st class, which that route does require. Although having said that I've seen 455s on it, more than once!
 
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Goldfish62

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Through gangwayed is a bit of a laugh, I don't know if the unit-to-unit gangway is still open, but just lately the guards tend to lock the two carriage doors so nobody can get through. (although I do wonder if that access was just for the benefit of Chertsey before it was extended, being the only station the units served that was 4car max)

Re the 531-536 usage, I was more referring to the use of 1 or 2 of them together, thereby not providing any 1st class, which that route does require. Although having said that I've seen 455s on it, more than once!

Two ex460s have been running together on Reading services throughout this past week.

Agreed about the inter unit gangways. They're rarely open these days and even they are passengers tend not to realise they are for public use.

There's also been some grumbles from both passengers and guards about the lack of toilets, ie that generally all a re locked out of use. A guard remarked to me that he hoped that First would take notice of staff complaints about this unlike SWT.
 

Sean Emmett

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Two ex460s have been running together on Reading services throughout this past week.

Agreed about the inter unit gangways. They're rarely open these days and even they are passengers tend not to realise they are for public use.

There's also been some grumbles from both passengers and guards about the lack of toilets, ie that generally all a re locked out of use. A guard remarked to me that he hoped that First would take notice of staff complaints about this unlike SWT.

I was on the 17.20 WAT to RDG yesterday, as far as Ascot. Train heavily delayed but even on the unrestricted sections after Feltham there was no improvement in performance over a Desiro, or indeed a 4VEP. From Feltham to Staines initial acceleration was pretty good but then seemed to dawdle just below the 70 mph limit. 5m 16s start to stop whereas the slammers could do it in under 5, although admittedly with a tad over 70 through Ashford.

Guard made a point of announcing that you could walk between the two units "at this time of day". I was sat next to the non disabled loo with a long queue, and which had run out of water.

Yes I do hope First will do more to keep the loos in use, otherwise not point in fitting them to all trains in the first place!

Finally, I'm off with family to see the athletics on Sunday and have only just realised the absurd SWT pricing policy on Sundays, which effectively has a peak hour going up to London. I still can't work out whether I need/can get an off peak / super off peak / weekend super off peak and whether its valid via Richmond and North London line, via Waterloo / Liverpool Street or indeed via Jubliee line from Waterloo. I hope First stop this nonsense too!
 

spark001uk

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Two ex460s have been running together on Reading services throughout this past week.

Agreed about the inter unit gangways. They're rarely open these days and even they are passengers tend not to realise they are for public use.

There's also been some grumbles from both passengers and guards about the lack of toilets, ie that generally all a re locked out of use. A guard remarked to me that he hoped that First would take notice of staff complaints about this unlike SWT.

Seems weird they go to the trouble of making an effort with 1st class for the line, then ignore it by running a pair of ex460!

Agree about toilets. I've tweeted SWT it must be ten times now about the 458 toilets, and every single time it gets ignored.
 

43096

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I was on the 17.20 WAT to RDG yesterday, as far as Ascot. Train heavily delayed but even on the unrestricted sections after Feltham there was no improvement in performance over a Desiro, or indeed a 4VEP. From Feltham to Staines initial acceleration was pretty good but then seemed to dawdle just below the 70 mph limit. 5m 16s start to stop whereas the slammers could do it in under 5, although admittedly with a tad over 70 through Ashford.
I was on that service too, and it was tedious. I rather suspect we had a "gnome" driver with no sense of urgency, as performance even with a clear road was not good.

The 458s are generally much better for time keeping than the Desiros. My up train yesterday was spot on time at my stop - which it never is with a 450. I think 450s lose around 10-15 seconds per stop purely because of the slow door cycle time. Makes a big difference to timekeeping.
 

AverageTD

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Saw a pair testing at Richmond last week and hoped this meant they would be in service soon. Don't know what will happen to them after the new franchise drops but I prefer 700s to 345s so I'm sad that first dropped them. Hope they stay in the south so I can ride them but 2 have been fitted with AC overhead so they may go up north. I hope they are not dropped before they enter service
 
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