New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[swt_passenger]

It's a pity the fast doesn't skip Winchester outside the peaks, as a Southampton airport to Waterloo service would help speed things up and be good marketing for both swr and the airport.

You are effectively suggesting the airport is a more useful call than Winchester? Can't see that being welcomed.

 

[A Challenge]

You are effectively suggesting the airport is a more useful call than Winchester? Can't see that being welcomed.

I think both would fit?

 

[theironroad]

You are effectively suggesting the airport is a more useful call than Winchester? Can't see that being welcomed.

Choices have to be made and the up and down realistically attainable line speeds would probably shave a couple of minutes off plus the 2 minutes dwell time at Winchester. The airport parkway serves a very wide catchment including the New forest, and people from the Eastleigh to to Fareham areas. Winchester gets additional services from Portsmouth where south West hants and Dorset will effectively have one through fast service.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think both would fit?

The ITT spec requires calls at both stations in all services anyway, so the proposal is pretty much academic; but Winchester has getting on for three times the passengers seen at Parkway (SOA).

If any further call removals were to be proposed to speed Southampton services up it would probably have to be SOA - it doesn't have the same significance on this route as say Gatwick does on the Brighton line...

 

[nw1]

The ITT spec requires calls at both stations in all services anyway, so the proposal is pretty much academic; but Winchester has getting on for three times the passengers seen at Parkway (SOA).

If any further call removals were to be proposed to speed Southampton services up it would probably have to be SOA - it doesn't have the same significance on this route as say Gatwick does on the Brighton line...

... and this would not be a good idea as for central northern Southampton (Swaythling and university areas, for instance, Portswood for northbound trains) it's the easiest mainline station to get to - and it's also the best connection station for Swaythling and St Denys.

 

[Matt Taylor]

And yet for years BR ran the Weymouths as first stop Southampton Airport despite the airport being more of a backwater than it is now.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Southampton Airport is barely used apart from Flybe. And they don't even operate what I would call "proper" aeroplanes anyway. All silly little things with massive propellers.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Southampton Airport is barely used apart from Flybe. And they don't even operate what I would call "proper" aeroplanes anyway. All silly little things with massive propellers.

That’s quite a generalisation - the Airport has nearly 2m passengers a year and is gaining more routes (easyJet are starting in November!)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You may have other things to consider yet, thanks to the report on BBC South Today last night.

Standby for SN MKII.

 

[Eastwestjct]

Cutting 14mins off Portsmouth direct trains is probably acheivied by combination off removing stops and reducing dwells quite a few are very generous. In the down direction there is pathing time approaching Havant, 2 minute dwell at fratton and Portsmouth harbour which is also matched with very robust running times fratton to Portsmouth Harbour.


Additional Portsmouth to Southampton service is excellent idea hopefully it will run 30mins apart from the FGW portsmouth Cardiff services. Part of the reason the current service is so unpopular is that they you can leave Southampton 20mins later and arrive at almost the same time.

Making the Portsmouth to Southampton effectively be the stopped to Brockenhurst and Weymouth will make many cross Southampton journeys palleteable compared with really bad journey times at the moment.

I think it will be an interesting to see the proposed timetable and particular interesting to see what the consultation includes in detail.

 

[Domh245]

You may have other things to consider yet, thanks to the report on BBC South Today last night.

Standby for SN MKII.

DOO? I would have thought that we'd have heard about it through railway media before a regional BBC report?

 

[desk_wizard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40886238

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh dear. Here we go again.

 

[30909]

You'd hardly expect a categoric statement at this point and the diplomatic answer was "It's far too early to say exactly how we will be operating those trains. As new trains they can be operated in a variety of ways"
I hope the Unions, staff, traveling public and media will allow a little shakedown time say until at least December 2018

 

[Agent_Squash]

Perfectly reasonable not to commit at this stage. Obviously this will be used as ammunition to cause lots of trouble on SWR - but hopefully First MTR won't let it become as big as a mess as on SN.

 

[pompeyfan]

Much to some people's surprise, unions aren't out to cause trouble, they're there to protect the best interests of their members.

 

[Feathers44]

You'd hardly expect a categoric statement at this point and the diplomatic answer was "It's far too early to say exactly how we will be operating those trains. As new trains they can be operated in a variety of ways"
I hope the Unions, staff, traveling public and media will allow a little shakedown time say until at least December 2018

What they said.

If I were taking over a project, I wouldn't commit to anything until I had my feet well under the table. Hopefully this is nothing more than that and people will treat it as such rather than reacting to what clearly hasn't been said.

 

[Bigfoot]

I see dco coming. Driver opens (faster release in line with the franchise promises of faster journeys) guard close.

 

[GW43125]

I see dco coming. Driver opens (faster release in line with the franchise promises of faster journeys) guard close.

The only issue I have with DCO (I'm prepared for the can of worms) is that with a guard present it takes two to make a stop short. If the driver of a 12-car stops at the 10-car, forgetting he has a 12-car and releases, it's not going to be pleasant for them.

 

[hwl]

The only issue I have with DCO (I'm prepared for the can of worms) is that with a guard present it takes two to make a stop short. If the driver of a 12-car stops at the 10-car, forgetting he has a 12-car and releases, it's not going to be pleasant for them.

Solved by ASDO and CSDE???

 

[Monty]

Solved by ASDO and CSDE???

Depends on the system of ASDO. The current system used by SWT does not protect against things a stop short and the guard is still required to make a visual check.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I see dco coming. Driver opens (faster release in line with the franchise promises of faster journeys) guard close.

Do the 444s and 450s have door controls in the cab (working or not)?

 

[greaterwest]

Do the 444s and 450s have door controls in the cab (working or not)?

Yes, as guards currently do (and regularly) release the doors from rear/middle cabs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see dco coming. Driver opens (faster release in line with the franchise promises of faster journeys) guard close.

While I fully support that method of operation because of the speed-up (and it was what was used on Southern prior to the present debacle anyway, as well as VTWC, XC (sort-of) and probably elsewhere as well) that isn't DCO. DCO is another word for DOO, but with a possible second member of staff having nothing to do with safety or operations.

 

[43096]

Depends on the system of ASDO. The current system used by SWT does not protect against things a stop short and the guard is still required to make a visual check.

Aren't the 458s different and work on a car-by-car basis, rather than through the TMS as on Desiros? So each 458 car reads the ASDO beacon individually and enables door release once it has passed the beacon - which protects against stopping short.

 

[hwl]

Depends on the system of ASDO. The current system used by SWT does not protect against things a stop short and the guard is still required to make a visual check.

The System can do, the issues is whether the stock has enough in built capability which partly explains the choice of a new fleet of Aventras to solve that issue completely.

 

[Domeyhead]

Much to some people's surprise, unions aren't out to cause trouble, they're there to protect the best interests of their members.

......by causing trouble for the general public who just want to get from A to B on time. So it amounts to the same thing.

 

[pompeyfan]

......by causing trouble for the general public who just want to get from A to B on time. So it amounts to the same thing.

Industrial action that doesn't cause inconvenience to someone is pretty ineffective action. I 100% agree that collective negotiations and comprises should always be tried first, unfortunately though, if one side is unwilling to compromise there's not really much else that can be done, unless you have any other suggestions after talks have burnt out?

Or would one prefer all union members across all industry to just accept changes, and roll over and have their tummy tickled?

 

[HH]

I see dco coming. Driver opens (faster release in line with the franchise promises of faster journeys) guard close.

I'd put money on what they really want is the non-commercial guards (on the "metro" services) to become commercial guards (or similar) as on the longer distance servers. That probably works best with DOO, but maybe DOGC can be made to work.

Anyone seen the layout of the new trains? That will tell us a few things.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Cutting 14mins off Portsmouth direct trains is probably acheivied by combination off removing stops and reducing dwells quite a few are very generous. In the down direction there is pathing time approaching Havant, 2 minute dwell at fratton and Portsmouth harbour which is also matched with very robust running times fratton to Portsmouth Harbour.


Additional Portsmouth to Southampton service is excellent idea hopefully it will run 30mins apart from the FGW portsmouth Cardiff services. Part of the reason the current service is so unpopular is that they you can leave Southampton 20mins later and arrive at almost the same time.

Making the Portsmouth to Southampton effectively be the stopped to Brockenhurst and Weymouth will make many cross Southampton journeys palleteable compared with really bad journey times at the moment.

I think it will be an interesting to see the proposed timetable and particular interesting to see what the consultation includes in detail.

Cutting 14 mins off on the down would be tricky. If you get a clear run with a 1Pxx service you can do Woking in ~20' & Guildford in 28', but that's "driving it like you stole it". So Woking in 21' & Guildford in 30' is perfectly achievable.

Again with a clear run:

Guildford - Haslemere = 13'
Haslemere - Petersfield = 10'
Petersfield - Havant = 12-13'
Havant - Fratton = 8'
Fratton - Southsea = 4
Southsea - Harbour = 5'

With station call allowances more or less as they are, that would give you an approximate journey time of 92' for a 77 mile journey.

If you deleted Woking & Haslemere from the equation (which you're not allowed to do) but for arguments sake we will, that would bring it down to ~85' which is somewhere where it used to be.

However you have the gruesome twosome which are always late & are for always getting in the way and that's SN & GW at Havant & Guildford respectively, so a ball park figure of 90' should be achievable in theory.

That's just 7' quicker than what it's done today, taking the amount of time out you're suggesting without removing Woking, Haslemere, Petersfield and Havant out of the stopping pattern, just isn't going to happen.