New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[HarleyDavidson]

Used to love using the pmh-wat superfast service.
Only called pms,ftn,hav,hsl and wat and usualy went via the cobham route

No they didn't. I know I used to work them.

There were just two trains a day that did PMS, FTN, HAV, PTR, HSL & WAT and vice versa.

1P00 - 0615 x Hbr, 1P52 (IIRC) - 1752 x WAT. Both known colloquially as "The Tory Expresses". Both almost always formed of 2 x 442 units, I only know of about half a dozen occasions when another set was substituted for a sick 442.

The other one's were 1Gxx services which were basically normal fasts routed via Cobham for route knowledge purposes.

 

[radamfi]

One of the women giving out bottles of water at Waterloo this evening was wearing a badge with the First and MTR logos.

 

[moley]

Per Network Rail, proposed regular calling patterns:

Weymouth to Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Local' x 1tph
Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester South, Moreton (Dorset), Wool, Wareham, Holton Heath, Hamworthy, Poole, Parkstone (Dorset), Branksome, Bournemouth, Pokesdown, Christchurch, Hinton Admiral, New Milton, Sway, Brockenhurst, Beaulieu Road, Ashurst (New Forest), Totton, Southampton Central, St Denys, Bitterne, Woolston, Sholing, Netley,Hamble, Bursledon, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Redbridge & Millbrook

Southampton - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Local Fast' x 1tph
Southampton Central, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Fast' x 2tph
Waterloo, [Woking], Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Worplesdon, Farncombe, Liphook.

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo, Clapham Junction, Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Milford (Surrey), Witley, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Rowland’s Castle, Havant, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Vauxhall, Wimbledon, Surbiton.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Per Network Rail, proposed regular calling patterns:

Weymouth to Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Local' x 1tph
Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester South, Moreton (Dorset), Wool, Wareham, Holton Heath, Hamworthy, Poole, Parkstone (Dorset), Branksome, Bournemouth, Pokesdown, Christchurch, Hinton Admiral, New Milton, Sway, Brockenhurst, Beaulieu Road, Ashurst (New Forest), Totton, Southampton Central, St Denys, Bitterne, Woolston, Sholing, Netley,Hamble, Bursledon, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Redbridge & Millbrook

Southampton - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Local Fast' x 1tph
Southampton Central, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Fast' x 2tph
Waterloo, [Woking], Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Worplesdon, Farncombe, Liphook.

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo, Clapham Junction, Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Milford (Surrey), Witley, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Rowland’s Castle, Havant, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Vauxhall, Wimbledon, Surbiton.

You won't get Wimbledon, Clapham or Vauxhall on the UMF or DMF, they're way too busy to make those calls, they tried it out using 1Txx services years ago and it just screws up the service with traffic being backed up for a significant number of signal sections.

Surbiton has capacity issues with the Portsmouth line trains overtaking either Basingstoke or Altons in that immediate area.or platforms.

Worplesdon is unlikely too as it's virtually unused during the day. Godalming has the 2Pxx service just in front of the 1Pxx, so not really sure how much that would benefit anything or anyone.

What they should be looking at is reducing journey times in the A3 corridor between Guildford and Portsmouth because you can do the journey quicker by car or coach than train.

If I go to the coast I drive it's far quicker than the train and more convenient and comfortable too.

 

[Matt Taylor]

1P00 - 0615 x Hbr.....known colloquially as "The Tory Express".

Still called that today, now running as 1P16!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

You won't get Wimbledon, Clapham or Vauxhall on the UMF or DMF, they're way too busy to make those calls, they tried it out using 1Txx services years ago and it just screws up the service with traffic being backed up for a significant number of signal sections.

Surbiton has capacity issues with the Portsmouth line trains overtaking either Basingstoke or Altons in that immediate area.or platforms.

Worplesdon is unlikely too as it's virtually unused during the day. Godalming has the 2Pxx service just in front of the 1Pxx, so not really sure how much that would benefit anything or anyone.

What they should be looking at is reducing journey times in the A3 corridor between Guildford and Portsmouth because you can do the journey quicker by car or coach than train.

If I go to the coast I drive it's far quicker than the train and more convenient and comfortable too.

For the Portsmouth-Weymouth will it be 8/12 car between Portsmouth & Southampton, with 4 continuing onto Weymouth and the other unit(s) that were detached forming the Southampton-Waterloo service?

 

[greaterwest]

You won't get Wimbledon, Clapham or Vauxhall on the UMF or DMF, they're way too busy to make those calls, they tried it out using 1Txx services years ago and it just screws up the service with traffic being backed up for a significant number of signal sections.

Surbiton has capacity issues with the Portsmouth line trains overtaking either Basingstoke or Altons in that immediate area.or platforms.

Remember that this'll need a major recast of the timetable to accommodate the 4tph via Petersfield, so these theoretical trains won't run at the same time as they do now.

 

[Kite159]

Weymouth - Portsmouth, that is one service I wouldn't want to do end to end on the direct train! Judging by the predicted calling pattern

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Weymouth - Portsmouth, that is one service I wouldn't want to do end to end on the direct train! Judging by the predicted calling pattern

If I had to travel from Weymouth-Portsmouth with that calling pattern I'd get the fast/semi fast to Southampton and change trains there, with the choice of the "local fast" and GWR.

 

[30909]

Still called that today, now running as 1P16!

That's interesting the "locals" commuting from Petersfield and Haslemere also called it "The Admiral's train" because of the number of Naval and other military types, in civilian clothes, who could be at their desks in the MOD by 8:30
I recall in the days of the "Nelsons" when Haslemere passengers were called by railway staff "Flour Graders" for their collective uniform of bowler hats. Those of you old enough will remember the Homepride Flour adverts!

 

[moley]

If I had to travel from Weymouth-Portsmouth with that calling pattern I'd get the fast/semi fast to Southampton and change trains there, with the choice of the "local fast" and GWR.

But surely that's the point. This is a local service to pick up the local traffic flows. In the same way that passengers wouldn't get the Poole stopper from Waterloo to Poole!

By joining them at Southampton you just help fee up platform space as that's two less terminating services.

 

[moley]

Still called that today, now running as 1P16!

I believe that at least one local user group has been told that this service will gain Godalming and then run non stop to Waterloo. Curious as it can be full leaving Haslemere.

 

[swt_passenger]

For the Portsmouth-Weymouth will it be 8/12 car between Portsmouth & Southampton, with 4 continuing onto Weymouth and the other unit(s) that were detached forming the Southampton-Waterloo service?

That would be total over kill, as mentioned earlier in the thread, because firstly 8 car trains are over length for almost every station on the Portsmouth - Southampton route. The existing service seems adequate at 4 car, being the "all shacks" from Fareham to Southampton it takes twice as long so most through passengers steer clear, and use SN/GWR. In future they'll have the additional choice of the new Portsmouth - Southampton semi fast, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't just 4 cars as well.

Any idea of 12 car would be a ridiculous amount of over capacity.

The Southampton to Waterloo service will almost certainly be formed by the previous down service, any sort of interworking would lead to unreliability.

You asked the same question in April, along with other weird ideas involving splits of Waterloo to Weymouth at Portsmouth Harbour, I sometimes think you just want to add complexity and unreliability where it doesn't exist...

 

[nw1]

The Southampton to Waterloo service will almost certainly be formed by the previous down service, any sort of interworking would lead to unreliability.

Not agreeing with the 12-car Portsmouth to Weymouth, but isn't interworking often used as it uses the diagrams more efficiently? Not sure about now, but certainly in BR and SWT trains up to about 2005 (last time I took notice to that detail) trains would sometimes swap routes at Waterloo and Portsmouth Harbour for instance (e.g. a Basingstoke up might become an Alton down at Waterloo, or an incoming Direct at Portsmouth might then go back up on a via-Eastleigh). In fact I do remember that for some years, the regular pattern (most hours) of the SOU-PMH stopper, when it went to Harbour rather than Southsea, was to then form a Waterloo via Eastleigh, as that was the most efficient use of the stock and avoided idling and using up platform space.

Indeed, even now, don't the suburban routes interwork? Sure I saw something on here suggesting that they did.

So in the quoted example, the Waterloo-SOU semi-fasts, if they stick to the current timings in and out of Waterloo they have 40 minutes idling at Southampton; I can imagine (depending on timings) that they _might_ form the new Southampton-Portsmouth semi-fast.

 

[nw1]

Per Network Rail, proposed regular calling patterns:

Weymouth to Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Local' x 1tph
Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester South, Moreton (Dorset), Wool, Wareham, Holton Heath, Hamworthy, Poole, Parkstone (Dorset), Branksome, Bournemouth, Pokesdown, Christchurch, Hinton Admiral, New Milton, Sway, Brockenhurst, Beaulieu Road, Ashurst (New Forest), Totton, Southampton Central, St Denys, Bitterne, Woolston, Sholing, Netley,Hamble, Bursledon, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Redbridge & Millbrook

Southampton - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Local Fast' x 1tph
Southampton Central, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Fast' x 2tph
Waterloo, [Woking], Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Worplesdon, Farncombe, Liphook.

Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea is 'Semi Fast' x 1tph
Waterloo, Clapham Junction, Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Milford (Surrey), Witley, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Rowland’s Castle, Havant, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour.
Options on Vauxhall, Wimbledon, Surbiton.

Does this mean that the Waterloo Portsmouth stoppers will no longer be 'skip stops' and will still loop at Haslemere?

Also, going back to an earlier point I'd have thought that some or all of St Denys, Woolston or Netley would be more useful stops than Portchester on the additional semi-fast SOU-PMH as Portchester already has 3 trains an hour including 2 to Portsmouth.

 

[swt_passenger]

So in the quoted example, the Waterloo-SOU semi-fasts, if they stick to the current timings in and out of Waterloo they have 40 minutes idling at Southampton; I can imagine (depending on timings) that they _might_ form the new Southampton-Portsmouth semi-fast.

I think they'll still be completely different length trains, the Waterloo to Southampton could be 8 or 12.450, or even be 444 operated.

I just cannot see the extra Portsmouth - Southampton being anything bigger than a single 450.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

because firstly 8 car trains are over length for almost every station on the Portsmouth - Southampton route.

Ever heard of ASDO?

 

[swt_passenger]

Ever heard of ASDO?

There's still no point in running long trains if the present four car service is more than adequate. Have you ever used it? I'm on the route a few times a month and I have never stood in the peaks. It is not that busy a route at all.

Please don't ask me if Ive ever heard of ASDO, I wrote many of the posts on here explaining SWT's ASDO system....

 

[nw1]

But my post you quoted above (#2134) has been overtaken by events, the track access quote I posted later (see #2151) states unambiguously that the new Portsmouth service will take over the Southampton to Poole and Poole to Weymouth legs of the two existing services that are being altered.

Going back to #2151 it does appear that what they will be doing is increasing peak trains out of Waterloo significantly, e.g. 6 Portsmouth Directs an hour, bringing back the days of the 80s when there used to be a 10-minute interval service, alternating between fast and slow.

Had a quick thought experiment (_not_ a serious suggestion) on this to see how many trains could be squeezed into the evening peak, assuming 2.5 minutes between trains, which seems to be the minimum interval looking at the current timetable.

Naively, the following 'might' be possible, if flexibility was allowed in adjusting XCs by a few minutes south of Reading, and perhaps diverting some Portsmouth Direct up trains via Cobham to reduce conflicts at Woking.

00,20,40 - fast Portsmouth services (Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth and Southsea, Harbour; xx20 runs via Cobham, see below; xx40 calls Worplesdon, see below)
02,12,32,42 - Surbiton then all stations to Woking; for xx02 and 32 might be necessary to hold at West Byfleet to allow Platform 5 to become free as there may be a clash with the xx17 and xx47. The difficulty would be what you do with them at Woking, a crossover to Platform 3 would lead to all sorts of conflicts I suspect while running them to Guildford would cause difficulties in how you form the up stopper.
05,35 - Weymouth fasts, much as now
07,37 - Portsmouth via Eastleigh, again much as now
10,30,50 - slow Direct services, Woking and then all to Haslemere. Two trains then loop and continue to Portsmouth, the other terminates Haslemere. xx50 runs via Cobham, see below; xx40 fast picks up lost Worplesdon stop
15,45 - Salisbury and Exeter services - as now but 5 minutes earlier
17,47 - Woking and all to Basingstoke. Would need to use platform 5 at Woking due to immediately following the Salisbury; see above
22,52 - Southampton 'crowd buster'; Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Parkway, Central. 1752 continues to Brockenhurst and Bournemouth if this would help spread loads. xx20 and xx50 Portsmouth Direct diverted via Cobham to give this a clear run. Might be possible to use 10.444 released from Directs by 442s.
25,55 - Alton, as now
27,57 - Walton, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all to Basingstoke. (the first three stops are to ensure that these bigger stations north of Woking do not have gaps more than 15 minutes)

As said above, a quick and dirty 'thought experiment' but given that the Winchester and Southampton trains (in my limited experience) are significantly overcrowded it would be worth adding additional fasts if they could be accommodated.

 

[pompeyfan]

There's still no point in running long trains if the present four car service is more than adequate. Have you ever used it? I'm on the route a few times a month and I have never stood in the peaks. It is not that busy a route at all.

Please don't ask me if Ive ever heard of ASDO, I wrote many of the posts on here explaining SWT's ASDO system....

There's only 2 services that suffer during the peaks across the Netley line, that's the 0738 off Southsea and the 1644 off Southampton, and even that could be resolved by using a 444.

I've run an 8 car over the Netley before, and revenue work just goes compleatly out the window, it's bad enough as it is now, without having to deal with 6, 7, 7, 6, 4 and so on.... also, on that note there is a freight light loco path just after St Denys conflict, which an 8 car would overhang. As a crowd buster for special events it just about works, for day to say work it doesn't.

Final thing from me, I've always wondered why 2Y61 (Waterloo - Southampton via the PDL) doesn't call all stations between Fareham - Southampton, and why there isn't more similar services through services as Petersfield - Hamble/Bursledon is quite a popular journey for some reason. Also, why is there no up version of 2Y61?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Final thing from me, I've always wondered why 2Y61 (Waterloo - Southampton via the PDL) doesn't call all stations between Fareham - Southampton, and why there isn't more similar services through services as Petersfield - Hamble/Bursledon is quite a popular journey for some reason. Also, why is there no up version of 2Y61?

There is, 1P58 (16:44 Fareham - Waterloo). The only reason it doesn't run in passenger service from Southampton is that a Southern leaves about ten minutes before
I think 2Y61 runs fast because of something to do with crew hours, and something to do with forming the 21:30 Southampton - Waterloo direct as well (it only has 5 minutes of turnaround at Central)

 

[GarethW]

There's still no point in running long trains if the present four car service is more than adequate. Have you ever used it? I'm on the route a few times a month and I have never stood in the peaks. It is not that busy a route at all.

Please don't ask me if Ive ever heard of ASDO, I wrote many of the posts on here explaining SWT's ASDO system....

swtp is totally correct, the all shacks pmth-soton are lightly loaded for most of the day and usually not full in the peaks (unless Southern are on strike)!

The vast majority of people going from Central to Swanwick or beyond will use Southern or FGW.

 

[swt_passenger]

Final thing from me, I've always wondered why 2Y61 (Waterloo - Southampton via the PDL) doesn't call all stations between Fareham - Southampton, and why there isn't more similar services through services as Petersfield - Hamble/Bursledon is quite a popular journey for some reason. Also, why is there no up version of 2Y61?

IIRC some of these odd services across the top of the Farlington triangle were extensions of services that previously started or terminated at Havant - it's always possible that they will have to become additional services into or from Portsmouth when the full 4 tph service starts on the Portsmouth Direct.

 

[gwr4090]

Acccording to the Dorset Echo, the plan to replace one Weymouth-Waterloo per hour by a Weymouth Postmouth stopper is now being reviewed by SWR, with a public consultation on the timetable next month. It is still planned to cut 14 mins from the time of the Waterloo fast service (how I wonder ?) which is currently rather slow.


.

 

[The Ham]

Going back to #2151 it does appear that what they will be doing is increasing peak trains out of Waterloo significantly, e.g. 6 Portsmouth Directs an hour, bringing back the days of the 80s when there used to be a 10-minute interval service, alternating between fast and slow.

Had a quick thought experiment (_not_ a serious suggestion) on this to see how many trains could be squeezed into the evening peak, assuming 2.5 minutes between trains, which seems to be the minimum interval looking at the current timetable.

Naively, the following 'might' be possible, if flexibility was allowed in adjusting XCs by a few minutes south of Reading, and perhaps diverting some Portsmouth Direct up trains via Cobham to reduce conflicts at Woking.

00,20,40 - fast Portsmouth services (Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth and Southsea, Harbour; xx20 runs via Cobham, see below; xx40 calls Worplesdon, see below)
02,12,32,42 - Surbiton then all stations to Woking; for xx02 and 32 might be necessary to hold at West Byfleet to allow Platform 5 to become free as there may be a clash with the xx17 and xx47. The difficulty would be what you do with them at Woking, a crossover to Platform 3 would lead to all sorts of conflicts I suspect while running them to Guildford would cause difficulties in how you form the up stopper.
05,35 - Weymouth fasts, much as now
07,37 - Portsmouth via Eastleigh, again much as now
10,30,50 - slow Direct services, Woking and then all to Haslemere. Two trains then loop and continue to Portsmouth, the other terminates Haslemere. xx50 runs via Cobham, see below; xx40 fast picks up lost Worplesdon stop
15,45 - Salisbury and Exeter services - as now but 5 minutes earlier
17,47 - Woking and all to Basingstoke. Would need to use platform 5 at Woking due to immediately following the Salisbury; see above
22,52 - Southampton 'crowd buster'; Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Parkway, Central. 1752 continues to Brockenhurst and Bournemouth if this would help spread loads. xx20 and xx50 Portsmouth Direct diverted via Cobham to give this a clear run. Might be possible to use 10.444 released from Directs by 442s.
25,55 - Alton, as now
27,57 - Walton, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all to Basingstoke. (the first three stops are to ensure that these bigger stations north of Woking do not have gaps more than 15 minutes)

As said above, a quick and dirty 'thought experiment' but given that the Winchester and Southampton trains (in my limited experience) are significantly overcrowded it would be worth adding additional fasts if they could be accommodated.

I would suggest that it is possibly better, if you are going to aim to try and relieve Winchester and Southampton by putting on more services I would make them skip Woking and Basingstoke. If they were slightly underused add in a stop at somewhere like Farnborough which could do with a slightly more frequent service but isn't going to attract significant numbers of people switching from other (slower) trains.

 

[theironroad]

There is, 1P58 (16:44 Fareham - Waterloo). The only reason it doesn't run in passenger service from Southampton is that a Southern leaves about ten minutes before
I think 2Y61 runs fast because of something to do with crew hours, and something to do with forming the 21:30 Southampton - Waterloo direct as well (it only has 5 minutes of turnaround at Central)

Nothing to do with crew hours and would struggle to form the 2130 as it doesn't arrive at sou until 2143. It does form the 2155 which would be unlikely if it stopped over the netley. it was ecs from Havant to sou and the only reason it exists at all (and 1p58) is to maintain route knowledge for certain depots....

 

[nw1]

There is, 1P58 (16:44 Fareham - Waterloo). The only reason it doesn't run in passenger service from Southampton is that a Southern leaves about ten minutes before
I think 2Y61 runs fast because of something to do with crew hours, and something to do with forming the 21:30 Southampton - Waterloo direct as well (it only has 5 minutes of turnaround at Central)

(edited - sorry didn't see someone had made point about it forming the 21:55)

I remember when I used that it ran slow from Fareham to Southampton as it immediately followed the stopper, though its time (24 mins vs 21) doesn't look too bad now; maybe it gets held further back in its journey. Even still, it looks like they could add, say, a Swanwick stop and arrive at SOU at the same time, which might have some use.

 

[nw1]

There's only 2 services that suffer during the peaks across the Netley line, that's the 0738 off Southsea and the 1644 off Southampton, and even that could be resolved by using a 444.

Quite surprised it would be the 1644 rather than the 1744 as the former leaves before 1700, whereas the 1744 is ideally timed to catch the commuter peak. But yes, as someone who regularly does SOU-Portsmouth and Southsea I tend to go with the GWR as it's much faster and arrives only a little later. The fact that the Portsmouth arrivals and departures are so close together means that there is effectively only one train an hour between the two cities at the moment, and this extra semi-fast will be very useful, as long as it's timed to give a reasonably even interval with the GWR.

 

[swt_passenger]

Acccording to the Dorset Echo, the plan to replace one Weymouth-Waterloo per hour by a Weymouth Postmouth stopper is now being reviewed by SWR, with a public consultation on the timetable next month. It is still planned to cut 14 mins from the time of the Waterloo fast service (how I wonder ?) which is currently rather slow.

AFAICS they'd gain the same benefits for "connectivity along the south coast" that was asked for by running the two Waterloo - Weymouths as now and just connecting the Portsmouth stopper to the Poole service.

The ITT spreadsheet allows for them to remove the calls in the Weymouths between Winchester and Waterloo, as discussed a week or two ago.

 

[theironroad]

AFAICS they'd gain the same benefits for "connectivity along the south coast" that was asked for by running the two Waterloo - Weymouths as now and just connecting the Portsmouth stopper to the Poole service.

The ITT spreadsheet allows for them to remove the calls in the Weymouths between Winchester and Waterloo, as discussed a week or two ago.

It's a pity the fast doesn't skip Winchester outside the peaks, as a Southampton airport to Waterloo service would help speed things up and be good marketing for both swr and the airport.