• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Guard closing the door before a passenger has got off.

Status
Not open for further replies.

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,380
Location
Liverpool
This one interested me today. I got off at the front door of a 156 and by the time I reached the middle of the unit the guard closed the doors. A carrier bag was sticking out so the guard opened the doors again. An old boy got off the train and started to shout at the guard that the same thing happened on Tuesday. Now I'm sorry but I got half way down the train by the time he got half of his carrier bag out the door. He wasn't that slow because by the time I got to the guard he was right behind me to have a go.

I am not totally heartless and I know we get slower as we get older but come on. He wasn't that slow and feeble that he couldn't get down the train behind me and give the guard a mouthful.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

J-2739

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2016
Messages
2,237
Location
London
I wonder if the news outlets will pick up on this..? (Daily Mail)

Still, that's no excuse for a guard to shut the doors on an old gentleman, if he wasn't putting it on. If so though, a few sharp words and a word with security would put him in his place instead

You never know, this guy could go and sue later.
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,380
Location
Liverpool
I wonder if the news outlets will pick up on this..? (Daily Mail)

Still, that's no excuse for a guard to shut the doors on an old gentleman, if he wasn't putting it on. If so though, a few sharp words and a word with security would put him in his place instead

You never know, this guy could go and sue later.

No mate, like I say I had got half way down the unit just walking by the time the doors closed and there was half a carrier bag sticking out the door. The guard was on his game because he spotted the bag and opened the doors again. The old boy was far from a gentleman and was fast enough on his feet when he got off.
 

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,967
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

Drives me mad when waiting to get on board, having left a few seconds with no-one in view who is apparently still intending to get off, only to be bumped into and glared at when I dare to step into the vestibule.
 

J-2739

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2016
Messages
2,237
Location
London
No mate, like I say I had got half way down the unit just walking by the time the doors closed and there was half a carrier bag sticking out the door. The guard was on his game because he spotted the bag and opened the doors again. The old boy was far from a gentleman and was fast enough on his feet when he got off.

Human error I guess.

Though perhaps he had something valuable in that back, or something fragile that he was trying to keep. Maybe that's why he got so het up.

'Old boy' :lol:
 

PudseyBearHST

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
1,104
Location
South West
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

Drives me mad when waiting to get on board, having left a few seconds with no-one in view who is apparently still intending to get off, only to be bumped into and glared at when I dare to step into the vestibule.

Most people are polite and they will applogise and/or thank me as they leave the train.
 

PudseyBearHST

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
1,104
Location
South West
Doesn't directly relate but I was on a class 455 today and the Guard released the doors at Walton on Thames .What he didn't realise was that only the front 4 coaches were released and the doors behind didn't open. He was just about to start desptaching the train but fortunately there was at least one person who wanted to get on from that side and so he told the guard.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
This one interested me today. I got off at the front door of a 156 and by the time I reached the middle of the unit the guard closed the doors. A carrier bag was sticking out so the guard opened the doors again. An old boy got off the train and started to shout at the guard that the same thing happened on Tuesday. Now I'm sorry but I got half way down the train by the time he got half of his carrier bag out the door. He wasn't that slow because by the time I got to the guard he was right behind me to have a go.

I am not totally heartless and I know we get slower as we get older but come on. He wasn't that slow and feeble that he couldn't get down the train behind me and give the guard a mouthful.

Wasn't Brian Souter by any chance? Old boy, carrier bag...:lol:
 

Lockwood

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
1,239
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

Drives me mad when waiting to get on board, having left a few seconds with no-one in view who is apparently still intending to get off, only to be bumped into and glared at when I dare to step into the vestibule.

Am I right in thinking that it is *technically* illegal to board the train until Mr "Is this my station? No. Oh, wait. Yes. I should go grab my bag then" has left?
(Ignoring the public interest test)
 
Last edited:

Cantab26

Established Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
1,948
Am I right in thinking that it is *technically* illegal to board the train until Mr "Is this my station? No. Oh, wait. Yes. I should go grab my bag then" has left?
(Ignoring the public interest test)

Only if the said ditherer is leaving by the door that you enter at the same time as you board.
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,380
Location
Liverpool
This guy was getting off. The guard didn't shut the door on someone getting on.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,562
Location
UK
Did the Guard close the doors before the passenger got off or did the passenger stick their bag in the door to prevent them being closed.

Not sure if the Guards Telepathic ability allows them to see inside the train.
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,380
Location
Liverpool
Did the Guard close the doors before the passenger got off or did the passenger stick their bag in the door to prevent them being closed.

Not sure if the Guards Telepathic ability allows them to see inside the train.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough. It was a fella trying to get off. I had got half the length of the train by the time he swung half of his carrier bag through the closing door. As I already said the guard did a great job.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,609
This one interested me today. I got off at the front door of a 156 and by the time I reached the middle of the unit the guard closed the doors. A carrier bag was sticking out so the guard opened the doors again. An old boy got off the train and started to shout at the guard that the same thing happened on Tuesday. Now I'm sorry but I got half way down the train by the time he got half of his carrier bag out the door. He wasn't that slow because by the time I got to the guard he was right behind me to have a go.

I am not totally heartless and I know we get slower as we get older but come on. He wasn't that slow and feeble that he couldn't get down the train behind me and give the guard a mouthful.

Sounds very unreasonable of the old gent. Especially if the same thing happened before - hasn't he learned from the experience?

As a DOO driver I allow a minimum of 15 seconds between door release and regaining interlock. This is usually ample for a lightly loaded, off-peak train. Obviously if I spot someone who is struggling I will wait as long as necessary. However I don't have X-ray vision and can't see someone in the train who is just about to get off.

If people can't cope with this, I'm afraid the only solution is that they think ahead and ensure they are seated close to the doors and get up in good time for their stop. Otherwise there is a significant risk of them being overcarried.
 

Harpers Tate

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2013
Messages
2,034
It seems to be the case from observation with some elderly folk (and this isn't meant as a blanket criticism - I guess I'll be there soon enough) that it is the decision to start doing something that takes longer - not the actual doing of it. Hence, it may have taken him longer than you or I to work out that he was where he needed to be, and to then begin the process of standing and walking to the door.
 

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,967
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
If this sort of thing had to be accommodated at every station then surely timings would start to slip, paths would be missed and the service would end up late, possibly causing better organised passengers to miss connections.

Without wishing to put more pressure on guards (while stocks last :? ), perhaps when checking the ticket of an obviously less mobile passenger they could ask if they are okay for "alighting" at their stop or do they need help. If they do then maybe a few minutes before the guard could pass through and make sure bags have been retrieved and the passenger is ready for action.

I've been asked by an elderly woman who was blocking the aisle to get her case out from under a pile of them, despite being loaded with my own luggage. Some people don't think ahead.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

Drives me mad when waiting to get on board, having left a few seconds with no-one in view who is apparently still intending to get off, only to be bumped into and glared at when I dare to step into the vestibule.

Happens all the time and it's just one of those things, it generally is better for elderly and infirm passengers to remain seated until the train has completely stopped and if they a have fall the train really will be seriously delayed.

A guard I know said he always allows at least 30 seconds before closing the doors even if the train is running late.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

Yes, I do that.

only to be bumped into and glared at when I dare to step into the vestibule.

No, I don't do that. I will just stand in the doorway until you move out of the way.

You can have your views on what people should and shouldn't do, but it doesn't make it the correct view.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,562
Location
UK
No, I don't do that. I will just stand in the doorway until you move out of the way.

Wait, you deliberately block the doorway. ?

Has this world gone nuts and no one asks politely for someone to move. 'Excuse me please' goes a long way.
 

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,967
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Yes, I do that.


I'd suggest you are in danger of being left on the train then, if there's only a short dwell time and you don't get to the door quickly enough.


No, I don't do that. I will just stand in the doorway until you move out of the way.

You can have your views on what people should and shouldn't do, but it doesn't make it the correct view.

Likewise.
 
Last edited:

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
This one interested me today. I got off at the front door of a 156 and by the time I reached the middle of the unit the guard closed the doors. A carrier bag was sticking out so the guard opened the doors again. An old boy got off the train and started to shout at the guard that the same thing happened on Tuesday. Now I'm sorry but I got half way down the train by the time he got half of his carrier bag out the door. He wasn't that slow because by the time I got to the guard he was right behind me to have a go.

I am not totally heartless and I know we get slower as we get older but come on. He wasn't that slow and feeble that he couldn't get down the train behind me and give the guard a mouthful.

Halfway down a single 156 isn't that far, about 22 metres or so from the front door, and if you were spritely getting off aswell then the Guard might not be leaving enough time between opening and closing the doors. That said, if it had previously happened to the 'gentleman' recently, I'd expect him to have been a bit quicker off the mark.

If this sort of thing had to be accommodated at every station then surely timings would start to slip, paths would be missed and the service would end up late, possibly causing better organised passengers to miss connections.

It should really be accounted for in the timetable, but that means longer journey times that no-one wants. It's a bit like the minimum suggested interchange times at stations, there will always be people saying it's too long and others saying it's not long enough.

Without wishing to put more pressure on guards (while stocks last :? ), perhaps when checking the ticket of an obviously less mobile passenger they could ask if they are okay for "alighting" at their stop or do they need help. If they do then maybe a few minutes before the guard could pass through and make sure bags have been retrieved and the passenger is ready for action.

It seems a reasonable suggestion, but how do you judge who needs help and who doesn't? Sure some are obvious, but some aren't, and there are many people out there, some of whom who really would benefit from a bit of assistance, who would react badly to even the suggestion that they might need that assistance.

I've been asked by an elderly woman who was blocking the aisle to get her case out from under a pile of them, despite being loaded with my own luggage. Some people don't think ahead.

Sadly this is not restricted to the older generation. Many people leave things to the very last second without planning ahead. In one case I had, a passenger, with family and luggage, turned up for a train an hour after the last connection for their ferry, the last of the day apparently.

Happens all the time and it's just one of those things, it generally is better for elderly and infirm passengers to remain seated until the train has completely stopped and if they a have fall the train really will be seriously delayed.

A guard I know said he always allows at least 30 seconds before closing the doors even if the train is running late.

30 seconds is good if there is room in the timetable, sadly in some areas this is only provided at major stations, with smaller stations having arrival and departure timed either 30 seconds apart or at the same time.
 

LOL The Irony

Established Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
Would fitment of camera's (both interior and on the platform) pointing at the doors stop problems like this? Of course, Platform Attendents could also solve this.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
Wait, you deliberately block the doorway. ?

The person trying to get on before they have let passengers get off is the one blocking the doorway.

I'd suggest you are in danger of being left on the train then, if there's only a short dwell time and you don't get to the door quickly enough..

If that is the case the train company needs to change their timings to allow all their customers time to get off the train.

Train companies must expect to carry a wide variety of customers, and you have a pretty selfish attitude if you think elderly and disabled people should not travel by train.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Rather a similar situation to the "the doors wouldn't open" brigade, the reason usually being because they didn't actually manage to get there until the train was being dispactched.
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,335
Location
Greater Manchester
Not saying it was the case here, but on some Northern services it can be difficult to physically get to the door through the standing passengers jammed in the vestibule. This can be particularly problematic on a 156 with its narrow vestibules. When only one or two passengers want to alight, the standees can be reluctant to move out of the way, or just rammed too tightly together.

On the other hand, anyone of any age can have a lapse of concentration. Passengers who make the same journey regularly generally do not spend much time looking out of the window. They prefer to pass the time reading, doing stuff on their phone or snoozing, relying on their subconscious to keep track of the train's progress. Hence the occasional last minute panic. But twice in the same week would be extremely careless!
 
Last edited:

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,743
As we weren't there, I think people are being a bit hard on the old gent.

Perhaps he was in a window seat, sat by a typical youngster with their gormless face in their mobile device, headphones on and oblivious to the entire universe, who wouldn't get out of the aisle seat quick enough when politely asked, making the old boy slow to the doors?

Or people stood in the aisle.

Or he left something behind and went back for it.

Or the train arrived a bit earlier than expected.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
11,124
Location
Redcar
As we weren't there, I think people are being a bit hard on the old gent.

Perhaps he was in a window seat, sat by a typical youngster with their gormless face in their mobile device, headphones on and oblivious to the entire universe, who wouldn't get out of the aisle seat quick enough when politely asked, making the old boy slow to the doors?

Indeed, we weren't there.

So how do we get from 'being a bit hard' on an old gent to then being harder on a 'typical youngster'?
 

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,743
Some people think they should behave as if on a bus, and remain seated until the train is completely stopped, only then starting to gather up their stuff and amble towards the door.

I don't agree with people that do this, but it does seem quite common nowadays. For example, families having kids stuff spread everywhere then trying to gather it together in a panic as the train comes to a stand at the platform. Surely they know the time the train is due to arrive at their station, and what time it is now, and therefore that they really ought to start thinking about getting ready to alight, promptly. It's not like the old days pre pa announcements, or displays, of the next station is..... I suppose people who fly don't have to get ready, and travelling on the bus you don't have to get ready, nor travelling by your own car or taxi.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top