Rail staff using 'unofficial' information sources

[Joe Paxton]

There are sometimes comments on here about how passengers, armed with information from say Realtime Trains, know more than rail staff during times of disruption.

Just wondering how many rail staff make use of such unofficial tools to help them stay informed?

(Presumably this would involve the use of a personal smartphone, so it might depend on the TOCs attitude towards that?)

 

[mresh91]

I always use OpenTrainTimes maps to keep tabs on trains to monitor delays/platform alterations. I also sometimes do use RealtimeTrains for quick access to future timetables and the impacts of engineering works. But I prefer to use the staff access CCLDB on most occasions. The maps are brilliant though on OTT.

Another source I like to use is the Journey Check page which neatly organises train information in a handy page. It has most of the relevant e-mail updates we receive, but I think I'm the only person in my station who knows of it, let alone uses it.

We get issued with smartphones at SWT, but if I ever forget it, I can just access the Journey Check page coupled with the maps on OpenTrainTimes and I'm good to go on my personal phone.

 

[district]

I mainly use CCLDB which is the staff live departures. We have software called P2 (all PCs and STAR machines) and CCF (in station control rooms) which shows us the passage of trains on maps. P2 isn't brilliant though so quite often I use OTT maps, especially on my phone when on barriers or platforms. We are issued company iPads which have Genuis Mobile on them (maps again but gives more detailed information such as what unit is working the train, and which train crew) but the iPads are quite slow, I often use my own phone as it is much quicker to elict information.

 

[causton]

We have been issued with Windows tablets at our workplace, but as we have a lot of standalone computers and personal mobile phones I don't think the tablet is ever charged, let alone used!

The main one I use is OpenTrainTimes as the P2 maps don't work on half the computers... also RealTimeTrains shows extra "VSTP" trains in disruption that sometimes don't show up on CCLDB/National Rail systems.

 

[bunnahabhain]

My managers use Opentraintimes.com and Realtimetrains.co.uk for various things, as do many drivers and guards.

 

[Lincoln]

I use a combination of Open Train Times (both schedules as it shows recovery allowances and maps), Realtime Trains, Genius Mobile and a bespoke app which accesses the Tyrell feed for all my info - combining their use to draw from their strengths and mitigate against their individual weaknesses.

When there is poor mobile reception I feel really out of touch with what's going on!

 

[LAX54]

I work for NR, we have TRUST / CCF and TYRELL, yet MOP's still know more about where trains are / disruption / what traction is on a train etc than we do !

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I mainly use CCLDB which is the staff live departures. We have software called P2 (all PCs and STAR machines) and CCF (in station control rooms) which shows us the passage of trains on maps. P2 isn't brilliant though so quite often I use OTT maps, especially on my phone when on barriers or platforms. We are issued company iPads which have Genuis Mobile on them (maps again but gives more detailed information such as what unit is working the train, and which train crew) but the iPads are quite slow, I often use my own phone as it is much quicker to elict information.

I can't use CCLDB as the log in I used was removed and despite emailing national rail with all of my details to request access they wouldn't give me any log in details at all. Genius contains most of the same information but isn't entirely accurate especially with platforms so access to CCLDB would be advantageous.

I always use the maps on open train times. I can see what's happening and can usually update my driver when all he/she gets on the GSMR is the "Wait" text messages. The disadvantage is only the ECML and the Man picc approaches are covered and not the whole TPE network as yet. Raildar isn't entirely accurate and al5houghthe a graphics are nice isn't clear to me what exactly is in front

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Used RTT for some detective work a while back to confirm a hunch that I had over an incident and that in conjunction with a P2 replay confirmed that my hunch with OTMR data was correct.

Sometimes I'll use RTT to find out which train caused me to be late, so I make sure that that the delay goes to the right place and crew, also for finding out journey times and possibilities for people.

 

[iphone76]

I use opentraintime (maps) and realtraintimes. Once when delayed with no information, I used Twitter to find out a train had broken down (and the reason) so I could pass this on to passengers.

 

[TEW]

I use OTT Maps and RTT a lot at work, both are promoted internally by the company as useful tools.

 

[EM2]

I was told by management to use RTT, because it was (quote) more accurate (unquote). And even when I discussed how it worked with Tom (swlines), and showed that it couldn't possibly be, I was still overruled...

 

[MrPIC]

I just know what they tell me most of the time! Company tablet is garbage, can't log in to anything these days. I usually just ring control if I want to know anything or buzz the siggy

 

[pompeyfan]

What/where is CCLDB? I've never heard of it? Personally, I'll use a combination of internal emails, RTT, OTT maps, and traksy for anything that isn't covered on OTT. I find my work smartphone doesn't let me see detailed information on RTT though, I would imagine one of the adverts is linked into a frowned upon site, and so restricts access.

 

[Carntyne]

What/where is CCLDB? I've never heard of it? Personally, I'll use a combination of internal emails, RTT, OTT maps, and traksy for anything that isn't covered on OTT. I find my work smartphone doesn't let me see detailed information on RTT though, I would imagine one of the adverts is linked into a frowned upon site, and so restricts access.

CCLDB is a really handy web based way of quickly checking all arrivals/departures for a station or a particular journey, it shows platforms when confirmed, ECS moves, updates and uses Darwin as a feed to display actual services during disruption.

I believe it was initially designed for National Rail Enquiries Call Centre, but couldn't confirm. I look it as an easier on the eye version of Location Enquiry on TRUST.

 

[Bromley boy]

I use RTT from my personal mobile* to check if the next train I'm due to work is on time/what platform it will arrive on.

If I'm in the cab I go by what the signaller tells me. Surprisingly this also isn't the official "party line" when explaining the reason for delays, etc. This can be highly embarrassing where the information I receive and pass on in a PA announcement is then contradicted by station announcements.

So much so that I'm now as vague as possible when explaining the reasons for delays!

*my work mobile looks like something that fell out of a Christmas cracker. It's somewhere in the bottom of my bag and hasn't been switched on for about six months.

 

[BHXDMT]

Our new work phones come with a link to Realtime Trains and have Raildar maps too. Handy to check whats holding us up.

Prior to that I always used RTT/OTT Maps on my personal phone to check stuff.

 

[RJ]

Disruption is regular on the line I work on and we're also vulnerable to platform changes at very short notice. I use Genius/Tornado maps to determine where trains are and it's majorly useful to have signal aspects shown, giving that much extra time to tell which platform the train is headed for. As such, P2 is surplus for me, though other colleagues use it. CCLDB is useful for rapid analysis of which trains have been cancelled or had altered stopping patterns. Where the PIS shows "delayed", the aforementioned sites can be useful for constructing manual predictions of how delayed that train is likely to be. Web Gemini is useful for getting train formations - I can relay the information to colleagues who deal with passenger assists and it saves a call to Control.

I don't ring Control for updates during disruption as they're busy enough trying to sort out displaced trains and crew and probably enquiries from other stations who prefer to speak to someone over following the electronic updates. I will only ring to request special stop orders if there's an unreasonably large gap ahead in the service interval.

I use Trackernet on the Underground as well, but that's because I got fed up with catching 20+ minute gaps in the Circle Line service so it's useful to know where the trains are so I can time my arrival at the platform!

As for unofficial sources, I don't really have a use for them for work purposes, the internal stuff seems to cover what's required.

 

[pompeyfan]

Is CCLDB worth asking for access too? Is it better than the detailed version of RTT?

 

[Joe Paxton]

I use RTT from my personal mobile* to check if the next train I'm due to work is on time/what platform it will arrive on.

If I'm in the cab I go by what the signaller tells me. Surprisingly this also isn't the official "party line" when explaining the reason for delays, etc. This can be highly embarrassing where the information I receive and pass on in a PA announcement is then contradicted by station announcements.

So much so that I'm now as vague as possible when explaining the reasons for delays!

Like many other passengers, I do wish that the railway didn't go in for 'massaging' their messages about disruption and delays. (Not shooting you as the messenger I should add, far from it - sounds like you were of the mindset to tell it like it is, at least until that became too awkward for you which again isn't your fault.)

Anyway I digress - back on topic, there are a lot of really interesting replies from railway staff here, thanks.

 

[Bromley boy]

Like many other passengers, I do wish that the railway didn't go in for 'massaging' their messages about disruption and delays. (Not shooting you as the messenger I should add, far from it - sounds like you were of the mindset to tell it like it is, at least until that became too awkward for you which again isn't your fault.)

Anyway I digress - back on topic, there are a lot of really interesting replies from railway staff here, thanks.

I quite agree, in fact there was an extensive thread on this very point recently.

Nothing worse than telling it like it is and then being made to sound like a liar to 1000+ angry people.

 

[thenorthern]

Quite a lot use Real Time Trains some even say its better than the internal staff only systems that they have available.

 

[GlosRail]

I was on Eurostar a few months ago as a passenger and was quite surprised to hear over the PA system to check RTT for any connections at Ebbsfleet.

 

[43096]

I believe (but stand to be corrected) that GBRf crews use RTT. This is why the GBRf headcodes are not scrambled in the NR data feed. No doubt it is cheaper than getting the internal systems put on phones/tablets etc and the data is just as accurate.

 

[trentside]

I have all relevant OTT Maps bookmarked and in a folder on the home screen of my work phone so I can check what's happening ahead. As others have said it will often give you a better idea of why the driver has been told to 'Wait' via GSM-R.

I use RTT for platforms and connections mainly.

 

[Firestarter]

I use a combination of Open Train Times (both schedules as it shows recovery allowances and maps), Realtime Trains, Genius Mobile and a bespoke app which accesses the Tyrell feed for all my info - combining their use to draw from their strengths and mitigate against their individual weaknesses.

When there is poor mobile reception I feel really out of touch with what's going on!

Whats the app?

 

[pompeyfan]

I have all relevant OTT Maps bookmarked and in a folder on the home screen of my work phone so I can check what's happening ahead. As others have said it will often give you a better idea of why the driver has been told to 'Wait' via GSM-R.

I use RTT for platforms and connections mainly.

Exactly the same here;

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There are sometimes comments on here about how passengers, armed with information from say Realtime Trains, know more than rail staff during times of disruption.

Just wondering how many rail staff make use of such unofficial tools to help them stay informed?

(Presumably this would involve the use of a personal smartphone, so it might depend on the TOCs attitude towards that?)

I can't use a personal mobile whilst at work because "all mobiles must be switched off and placed in your locker at all times during work hours", which also rules out using the company mobile that was provided to 'improve communication'....

Fortunately I am provided Internet access via my STAR machine which allows me to use RTT when necessary and "The Manual" (or iKB as it actually is now). For information on future engineering work I have a conversation with one of the members of the stations 'friends of..' group who also seem to be able to tell me a damn sight more about what's going on than my company.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I remember the old days before mobile phones and the Internet existed. We used to ring stations up or down the line to pass messages on. Ticket office staff would even go out onto the platform to inform conductors what was going on so passengers could be informed.

 

[Jonfun]

I mostly use the internal Genius Mobile and TyrellCheck systems to keep tabs on what's going on, though during disruption OpenTrainTimes Maps/Traksy really come into their own. You can see exactly what's happening around you at a glance, which means you're able to get a better level of information to pass on to the passengers.